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Oct 03, 2009 · BuddhaJones Message Board

What's the deal with SGIBuddhism.org?

SGIFinancesBuddhismPolitics

In comments here, questions have been raised about a social networking site for SGI members.

Chris Tinney, founder of SGIBuddhism.org, also established something called The Peace Church. To support his operation, Tinney sells "space" on The Million Dollar Peace Page. How it works: you give him a dollar, he gives you 100 pixels of nothing.

So far, according to his page, Tinny has brought in $46,500 this way. Tax free? I wonder. Where does the money go? Supposedly, to support the peace tour and the peace church blogtalk radio activities.

Tinney also founded Powerful Intentions, the law of attraction community.

In other words, it looks as if SGIBuddhism.org is just another spoke in the wheel this guy is spinning to make a buck from the good intentions of so-called like-minded people.

Anyone have more info about Tinney and his operations?

13 comments

brooke

Interesting. I have heard some complain that SGIBuddhism.org is a platform for recruiting multilevel marketing dupes for a product called exfuze. Sadly, the same sort of people who are attracted by the "chant for anything" rhetoric of SGI are also attracted by the get-rich-quick-while-saving-the-world rhetoric of multilevel marketers of health tonics and vitamins.Of course, you can chant for anything, and I have no argument with that. However, in SGI, more than any other Nichiren-based group, this is translated as prosperity chanting, chanting to get rich, chanting to attract abundance. Can't imagine Nichiren would be too happy to see this development.Chris Tinney also runs LocalOutreach.org, which essentially collects spare change to supposedly help communities. LocalOutreach.org. Tinney calls himself and "Ambassador of Abundance."What a joke. How sad that so many SGI members have bought into this claptrap.

brooke

I typed hastily. An "Ambassador of Abundance."That must be a new spin on the concept of Bodhisattva of the Earth.I also wanted to note that SGIBuddhism.org claims it is not officially affiliated with SGI. However, one of the moderators, Dan Defensor, is a longtime SGI-USA leader.Also, if you know your SGI history, you know that SGI threatened to sue IRG (Independent Reassessment Group) for copyright infringement for referring to SGI-USA and using the colors red, yellow and blue in its logo.My point is, if SGI-USA did not officially endorse and support the activities of SGIBuddhism.org, Tinney and his crew would have gotten a cease and desist letter by now.

clown hidden

I'm a member there. Not a lot going on. They had a chat last night. They have links to study material at SGI sites. I haven't been hit up for anything nor noticed any spam stemming from my presence.At the Peace Church link all I saw were events having to do with Rekei.He does do network marketing.Where's there a problem?

brooke

Clown, if grownups want to join and participate on that site, it's fine with me. Just as it's fine if they want to join and participate in SGI.Joining and participating in such groups, however, is not synonymous with practicing Nichiren Buddhism. Rather, there may be (and, I assert, there is) a completely different agenda involved.I think it's legitimate to raise and investigate questions about that site, just as people question this site. Questioning is the whole point.

clown hidden

Participating at the site is not the same as practicing. The same would be true of any and every site on the web. It is a way of networking for SGI members. I can't imagine anyone thinking it was practicing, perhaps an aid to practicing for some.Neither I nor anyone else I know of has beened duped into a MLM from participating.Questions can be legitimate questions that have answers or they can be a way of making insinuations thta facts don't back up.So, who got duped and how? That's a question.I can easily see how any site that is considered devisive or contrary would be treated different from one that was supportive,whether by the SGI or any other organization.

mroaks

Brooke thanks for the follow up.What's wrong with multilevel marketing? Here is one take on that question:http://www.vandruff.com/mlm.html

MLMs grow by exploiting people's relationships. If you are going to be in an MLM, you swallow hard and accept this as part of "building your business." This is "networking." But to those not "in" the MLM, it seems as if friendship is merely a pretext for phoniness, friendliness is suspected as prospecting, and so on. There is no middle ground here, try as you might.
If you can't see the parallels between MLM and SGI and setting up a raft of websites to attract more and more people into your network...um, I won't try to explain it.
clown hidden

I don't think you can explain it, you certainly haven't so far.I'd like to hear from anyone having a bad experience or being directed to join in any MLM from being connected to SGI Buddhism.org and until I do I will assume that you are making something out of nothing.  

mroaks

Here it is:http://morzh.com/wordpress/?p=18

There is another discussion group for SGI members. It is called SGIBuddhism.org. Its true purpose is to draw people into a multi-level marketing scam. In these systems people don't make money by selling stuff, they make money by recruiting others to sell stuff. It's a money-making cult where only those at the top make a profit. Others are left holding the bag with a bunch of stuff they can't sell and which they had to pay for.This guy (Chris Tinney) is promoting green living by touring the country in an RV! He doesn't even see the hypocrisy of that. His history reveals he is the classic con-man. Claims to have made a bunch of money as a stockbroker, then left the rat race to help people live well. Furthermore he claims participating in his board will create good fortune.Here's some choice excerpts from his website:"The more clear you are about what you're creating the more easily you'll create it. You'll be activating what researchers call Structural Tension in your subconcious.  Structural Tension is created when you focus on what you want. Holding the idea of what you want firmly in your mind naturally begins to draw things to you. Essentially helping to "close the gap" between where you are now and where you want to be."Invention of new jargon - sign of a cult."Schedule Your Strategy Call. Schedule your call within 72 hours of joining.  Don't talk to anyone about your new business until you complete your strategy call.'"In other words, don't talk to anyone who might warn you this is a scam or encourage you to check it out first."We will simply set about finding you 3 business partners."It's not about selling the product but finding new business partners (known in the con-man trade as "marks") to sell it for you."The best way for you to learn all the benefits of our producs [sic] are to use them yourself!"In other words sellers have to buy the product. This is how those at the top levels make money. Everybody above the low man gets a cut.This entry was posted on Thursday, July 17th, 2008 at 6:04 pm and is filed under News. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.2 Responses to "Scamming the Green Revolution"   1. Come Again? Says:      September 28th, 2008 at 11:10 pm      If someone wants to travel the country selling sea weed and other green organic substances. All power to them. I can care less if his company is set up like a traditional corporation or an MLM (both have been known to do both good and evil, depending on whose running them). Is his product good and is it helping people? That's all I care to know. The fact that he has also created a site for SGI members to connect with one another is cool too, if it is a benefit to those SGI members that are using the site. From reading the comments of many of the members who are connecting across continents, it's seems to be a good thing. In fact, it looks even more effective than MySpace SGI sites.      He doesn't claim that the site is an official site, but is a private site set up by him, which is more credit than most sites can claim including this blog that doesn't even list who the author is.      What are you afraid of if you are going to speak the truth? Or are you?   2. Lets realize that we do make hurtful statements sometimes Says:      October 1st, 2008 at 8:32 am      Sometimes, we ourselves are fixed in our situations of life, so much so that we start pouring our frustrations on others.      No one can force anyone to do business by influencing the Sgi members.      If someone has set up a private site, it's that person's complete will to use the site for any purpose..either for business or for spiritual. Everyone has right to freedom of expression.      If we think, that Chris is doing wrong, lets dialogue with him first, instead of talking out in public and creating a furor. Furor is no wisdom..its showing our frustration ..just the inapprpriate way!!      All the best!!      Lets protect Sgi first and its members!
clown hidden

O.K. you don't like MLM, and maybe you there is something wrong with riding around the country in an RV promoting green lifestyles. I might agree with you. What you haven't shown is that anyone is being suckered in to joining a MLM business by participating at SGI-Buddhism.org. In the absence of facts to the contrary I will believe my own experience and that of a couple of others that I know of and conclude that the idea is ludicrous.If you want to muck rake show me the muck or look foolish.

clown hidden

I couldn't find where his business was advertised on the home page. It wasn't listed in the business group unless I missed it. He does mention it on his home page and there is contact information. I suppose some unsuspecting innocent could contact hom about his company and thus fall into his snake oil huckster trap. Seems like a big set up for a small return but I guess thta's why he's the millionaire and I'm the idiot.Still I do find it hard to believe that this proponent of peace, healing, community, and environment sustaining living is going to recruit me into his MLM empire or that that was his intention. But if he did maybe he was thwarted by the heavy moderation policy. It is most definitely a site for supporters of SGI and their beliefs. Which is exactly what some people want and I enjoy it myself from time to time. But I will be forewarned not to fall for any green lifestyle scams from a homeless guy living in a van.

auntie

This is all very foreign but intriguing to me. I am not involved in online "networking" as many of you are. I am told that there are wonderful photos of my young relatives on Facebook if I would only sign up. I don't envision myself doing that.I have looked at the links provided here, and I do see similarities in SGI and MLM. It used to be that SGI members were pushed to recruit a growing circle of members in an attempt to gain "fortune," or the good graces of mystical forces.While the motive in MLM is fast money, fortune was/is a powerful motivator. In the MLM form of Buddhism, recruiting people, participating in activities, legitimizing certain books, websites, people and organizations -- all of it is touted as bringing "fortune." Some go so far as to mischaracterize this as creating good karma.Perhaps the parallels between MLM and SGI's brand of Nichiren Buddhism are invisible to those who think that, sadly, this is what Nichiren Buddhism is all about -- networking, accumulating fortune, etcetera. I agree that this is a misguided but popular view.When I was a member of SGI in the southern california area about 15 years ago (long before Internet networking) members got involved in all kinds of health tonic schemes. One of my leaders sold Noni Juice, another sold sets of magnets that were supposed to balance one's energy, and some sold crystals that were said to have healing properties. There was a chiropractor I remember who many SGI leaders went to. His business was promoted among the membership as being "enlightened" chiropractic "based on SGI teachings."It seems that there will always be those who "use" their relationships with others and "use" Nichiren Buddhism to pursue material goals, even the "spiritual materialism" of trying to gain fortune.This does not accord with the teachings of Nichiren any more than it accords with the teachings of Jesus. But because misunderstanding and greed are so pervasive, I doubt you'll be able to dissuade anyone from pursuing self-enrichment in the name of Buddhism.  

clown hidden

You may not like MLM http://www.nexuspub.com/articl...I certainly don't.But ity seems to me that that is precisely how both Christianity and Buddhism were spread from their inception up until the time that they became corporate entities. Both founders exhorted their followers to travel and preach and gain converts. Multi level marketing is a good description of the distribution process that took place.Maybe what is really distasteful about MLM is the sloganeering and the you can become rich prpaganda. Ain't that America?  

deardenver

I see everyone's point (I think) and it's interesting, etc., but I personally don't see any harm in SGIBuddhism.org. (Not that anyone's claiming harm, necessarily.) The issues for me are:1. To what extent can a website or online "network" be a sangha? That's a question I think about with regard to BuddhaJones as well as other online message boards. My opinion so far is that websites can provide support for sangha, but should not be mistaken for sangha.2. At what point do you exclude people from participating in your online discussion? Early in this site's history, I know we banned two participants. I feel it was the right move. Still, I would like this to be a site where basically anyone can say anything about Nichiren Buddhism, and where it's all open for everyone to see what's being said.3. Who's going to pay/contribute to keep it going? We tried Google ads at the start, but I was in favor of ditching them (ugly, no control over the type of ads served....) Several of you chipped in with time and money to pay the hosting fee and keep things humming. It's an all-volunteer effort, as are most sites like this. I seriously doubt that anyone is making money from a Buddhist website unless they have huge pageviews and are selling lots of ads.These issues are central to any online Buddhist "community," I would guess. Different groups handle the issues differently. SGIBuddhism.org is not my cup of tea, but whatever.  

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