Authoritarian leadership, deception and destructive mind control are the main ingredients in a cult, and SGI fits the bill. That may strike some as an unkind or unfair assertion, but I plan to back it up with examples and explanation in my posts. SGI is a cult.
Am I saying that SGI members are bunch of brainwashed zombies? No, I'm not. If mind control were so cartoonish and obvious, it wouldn't be a problem. Internalized beliefs and phobias aren't usually obvious, yet they nonetheless have an enormous influence on a person's behavior and emotions. But I'll get to that soon enough.
Am I saying that SGI members are horrible, stupid or consciously manipulative people? No, not at all. Some of the most wonderful, smart, sincere people I have ever met are SGI members. It's because of our sincerity and idealism, perhaps,that we uncritically accepted "training" that made us dependent on the SGI, and we faithfully passed this dependency training on to others.
I don't think that SGI members are deliberately trying to hurt anyone. It's more like we're passing along a virus because we have no clue that we have been "infected." In my posts, I plan to show you what I mean by infected.
And you'll notice that I'm saying "we." I include myself. I became an SGI member almost 14 years ago. I've worked for the SGI as a paid propagandist -- first as a staff writer for the World Tribune and more recently as a freelance ghostwriter. SGI is on my professional resume. I've defended the SGI in print. I've tried to explain away charges from friends, family and strangers that SGI is a cult. I've tried to convince myself that SGI might one day change.
But cults like SGI change only in the sense that they become more sophisticated or perhaps more subtle in their workings. The goal remains the same: to make members believe that they will suffer without the group, that whatever happiness and success they have is attributable to the group, that they owe everything to the group. This is *not* Nichiren Buddhism -- this is SGI-ism. And I repudiate it.
SGI members proudly state, "I am the SGI," despite the fact that members have no voting rights, no control over the SGI's policies or finances, no grievance procedure for resolving disputes, etc. "I am the SGI" means that SGI members have assumed total personal responsibilty for an organization in which they have zero control. So when I criticize the SGI, I know that many SGI members will feel that I am attacking them personally and they will respond with personal attacks on me.
But this isn't about personalities. It's about becoming aware of the methods and content of SGI cult indoctrination.
There are many SGI members who will refuse to read what I have to say. That's fine with me. Many will dismiss my views as "negativity" or "complaining." So it goes. But I'm guessing that there are a few people who are ready to read what I'm saying. It took me a long time to get to the place where I could even write this. If what I say resonates with you -- if you say, "Yes, exactly! That's true for me!" then that's cool. If you think I'm full of crap, that's cool too.
For many years I have been a member of a cult. I have contributed my money, time and talent to the perpetuation of a cult. I have been a cult apologist, leading other people into the cult.
No more.
Comments
I think you read that Southwell complaint one too many times.
Greetings Lisa,
First off, I would like to apologize for our first encounter regarding Jan Tyler's letter. My only point there was that perhaps there was more to this than met the eye.
As for your feelings about the SGI and the people that make up the SGI, I think it's great that you can articulate your feelings nad perhaps as an organization, the SGI can hear you someday.
I agree with you that there are many questions regarding the finances of the SGI, but I would like to know how other religious organizations in the United States handle their financial affairs. This would help not only me, but many others in terms of putting the behavior of the SGI in proper perspective.
Regarding the comments about those who leave the group suffer, those whose happiness & success is based on the group and owing everything to the group, well, I can only hope that those people can someday expand those views.
I know that where I practice, those views are not supported by anyone. In fact, if they showed their ugly heads, I think the members would completely reject them.
We have had many people come back to our group. I truly beleive that they came back because we have changed somehow and that there was nothing wrong with them in the first place. I use these people as a measuring stick, if you will, in terms of how much we have changed. I think that we lost many people due to our inhumane behavior. I cannot change the people that caused all this, but I can change myself.
Something else you may wish to explore and something that I think about is that Buddhism is about equality. How can you have a buddhist organization that is a heirarchy. Does that make sense?
And perhaps this Blog is a way for you to grow as well.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I recall somewhere Mr. Toda stating that he looked forward to the day when there was no organization, we all simply practiced buddhism together. I look forward to that day too.
thanks,
robert
Hi Lisa;
I think there may be some value to your investigation of this issue...as long as you continue to make it clear that there is no "evil" plot underway in the gakkai...merely manifestations brought about by many factors...
There is no doubt that SGI still has many cultish attributes...
And there can be NO doubt that the old NSA of the 70s and early 80's WAS a full fledged cult...! I know...I lived it!
Looking at Hassan's "BITE" model, I see it as a scorecard of SGI's substantial improvement in this regard...and I think a lot of that improvement will not be manifest until it filters into the lives of those leaders and members who were so intently trained in the 70s and 80s...
So I'm not an apologist for the SGI...but I'm not ashamed, either...I see reason to be optomistic..
and I think SGI members (especially old timers) would do well to seriously examine these issues...with a determination to improve our organization...
Your examination of this subject will bring you a torrent of criticism...but I'm sure you can deal with it...In this case, you're creating value and helping to improve the SGI...but only if you can encourage non-culties to stay and remake the SGI...that's the bottom line...leaving creates no value...everyone loses...
I want to see a win-win situation...
Thanks for your efforts
David J.
Robert, most mainstream religious groups in the United States offer full financial accountability to their constituents. Even the Nichiren Shu organization in this country (NONA) does this. I've written a bit about it that you can check out at my blog:
http://www.buddhajones.com/Andy/archives/000009.html unavailable
Also check out the web site listed at the end, which goes to an Evangelical group that urges full disclosure and has some good information. Also, the SGI-UK, the SGI-Australia and some other SGI organizations around the world offer full disclosure because those countries require it by law. The United States does not (nor does Japan).
Dig in, my friend. I have never heard a single plausible reason why your organization should not do this, and a multitude of reasons why it should.
Actually, I think that this is one of the few things that it WILL change, given a bit of time (at least in the USA). I predict ten years, or shortly after Mr. Ikeda dies, whichever comes first.
Cheers!
Andy
p.s. Short list of religious groups who do NOT offer financial accountability in the USA: the Moonies; Church of Scientology...
Good for you Lisa.
P.
Hi Lisa,
Are you declaring in this recent blog that you are no longer an SGI-USA member? I think your insights about SGI's cultish aspects are sound, but I (and many others, I'm sure) would hate to see you go. The organization desperately needs people like you.
I agree with David Johnson about staying on and effecting change, even though it's emotionally trying. It surprises even me that I believe continued positive change is possible. Am I waxing too optimistic? Time will tell.
All the best,
Gabrielle Wise
Lisa You wrote:
---It's because of our sincerity and idealism, perhaps, that we uncritically accepted "training" that made us dependent on the SGI, and we faithfully passed this dependency training on to others.---
Who is depended on the SGI? Were you? Im not dependent on the SGI I have a Job and a family I belong to the SGI I chant to the Gohonzon and depend only on my practice to my Gohonzon. Maybe you chose the words dependent on SGI because you worked for SGI. Then I would say yes you were dependent on your job in that case. I do not work for SGI and Im not dependent on SGI. SGI activities stimulate my practice and for this reason SGI exists to stimulate and help all those who want to practice correctly Nichrens teachings.
---It's more like we're passing along a virus because we have no clue that we have been "infected."---
Infected with what. Infected because you have no power to control SGI to your liking? Or vote who is going to be your chapter leader? Or because you have no control where the money goes?
What propaganda? When were you asked to propagate outside propagating the practice and encouraging and help others to chant to the Gohonzon and understand the teaching of Nichiren?
---I've worked for the SGI as a paid propagandist -- first as a staff writer for the World Tribune and more recently as a freelance ghostwriter. SGI is on my professional resume. I've defended the SGI in print. I've tried to explain away charges from friends, family and strangers that SGI is a cult. I've tried to convince myself that SGI might one day change.---
So you were demoted to a ghostwriter since your plan to implement your grandiose ideas did not materialized. SGI publications exist for only one thing is to encourage the members to practice this great teaching correctly. If you had any other ideas in mind it is the wrong reason to be there and you probably were there at the wrong time for the wrong reasons.
---The goal remains the same: to make members believe that they will suffer without the group, that whatever happiness and success they have is attributable to the group, that they owe everything to the group. that whatever happiness and success they have is attributable to the group, that they owe everything to the group. This is *not* Nichiren Buddhism -- this is SGI-ism. And I repudiate it.---
Where did you get this crap! Who remains in SGI because they will suffer without the group? It is the GOHONZON, practice and chanting to the GOHONZON the SGI is promoting. Where did you read these distorted ideas? Im not in SGI because of the group. I want to be in the group. They stimulate my devotion to practice and chant to the GOHONZON not to belong to the group. I would like to be sure that Im practicing correctly with the right group. Yes that is important. I do not want to chant Nam Myoho Renge Kyo with a group who is practicing southern Baptist Christianity. They simply will not stimulate me to practice to the Gohonzon.
---SGI members proudly state, "I am the SGI," despite the fact that members have no voting rights, no control over the SGI's policies or finances, no grievance procedure for resolving disputes, etc. "I am the SGI" means that SGI members have assumed total personal responsibilty for an organization in which they have zero control.---
What control are you talking about? Should we let anyone make decision how the money of the organization is spent? NO! I would not want that. I would not feel comfortable to have any one and everyone to drive the Bus or to stir the ship that Im sailing on. Maybe you would let anyone stir the ship you are sailing on. Not me! Im simply not qualified to do it my self so why let someone who is unqualified to do so. However, I can become qualified if I really learn and understand who to stir this massive ship and you can do it to if you just had the stamina to learn and lead others to the Gohonzon. Stirring the SGI is just like that. It is not a political hierarchy, It is a faith responsibility. Just because others did not trust you to stir the ship in WT does not means that you did not have the opportunity to grow and learn how to do it right. You simply resented the fact that you were not able to do so on the account that you wanted it to do it without being qualified to do so.
So you chose to be a Tabloid writer accusing SGI of being a cult because you think they are a cult and you are willing to take anyone (to this state of mind) who has the same ambition to have the same desire to control over SGI without being qualified to stir SGI therefore they should feel just like you. It is A cult. Take it or leave it! How pathetic your assumption is.
If practicing Buddhism correctly would amount to have the right to control the very decision that may or may not be good for all, Buddhism would be like any other religion who vote their pastor or priest to fill a position only because he or she are not able to do any other thing in society.
Fortunately, SGI practice Buddhism so correctly and dynamically befitting the times that it attracts the criticism of people just like you who resort to attacks when things do not work their ways.
Only time will tale whether you are right or wrong.
In the meantime you'll continue to convince others the righteousness of your claim and maliciously spread your word as wide as you can and well all enjoy the benefits of practicing the perfect teaching correctly as the Daishonin teaches.
Right now based on your last posts your favorite GOSHO quotes are not written by Nichiren but rather by Steve Hassan who I hardly can say being portraying a universal truth and that is what you rely on to support your claims with excess confidence. How pathetic!
The following quote is from the Letter to the Brothers
I doubt you have ever read it. And if you did I doubt you have understood it with your life like you clam to say. If you have read it and did not understand it read it over and over again until you do. This is not a cultish order it is a suggestion. I hope that one day youll awaken yourself to a true faith regardless of what you are thinking of SGI. We do not practice this Buddhism for SGI. SGI exists for us so we can practice this great Buddhism correctly.
Quote:
The great demon of fundamental darkness can even enter the bodies of
Bodhisattvas who have reached near perfect enlightenment and prevent
them from attaining the Lotus Sutra's blessing of perfect enlightenment. How
easily can he then obstruct those in any lower stage of practice! The devil king
of the sixth heaven takes possession of the bodies of wives and children, and
causes them to lead their husbands or parents astray. He also possesses the
sovereign in order to threaten the votary of the Lotus Sutra, or possesses
fathers and mothers, and makes them reproach their filially devoted children.
End quote:
You have been deceived by your own mind and the mind of those who share the same ambitions you have. You are a smart woman but you will never defeat the Buddhas words no mater what strategy you employ. You will only cut your own ability to attain the way for the venom penetrated deep in your mind. I hope youll recover soon one day.
Sincerely,
Micha
Lisa, I think that what you are doing is a good thing. If the SGI top leadership is truly sincere, then this review of some of the practices within SGI will be, (I hope) their last needed wake up call.
If what most of the top leadership in SGI is doing is evil and/or manipulative, well, it might as well be discussed for what it is in the open.
You are a much braver soul than I. Chanting for you...
Anne
Lisa,
The article, Are You an Unwitting Cultie? by Christian Oaks, pretty well sums it all up and things havent changed since it was posted last July. I aint gonna quote from it, its two clicks away. Having read and seen virtually everything on this site, and responded much
Proclaiming that SGI is a cult (like the Moonies, like Jonestown, etc.) is playing with semantics to create a shock effect. I like the appeal to paranoia maybe by admitting I enjoy district meetings and world peace gongyo Im passing the virus on right now! The points youve raised (that weve all raised) on this site about publications, financial accountability, etc. are extremely valuable, but in the next few days youd better have some surprising new insights and information to reveal or this blogs gonna smack of redundancy.
Already Im beginning to side with Micha, dharma forbid. Maybe Micha and I should get together and pray for you. Perhaps we should learn together to stir the great ship of the SGI in our sanctimonious coffee. Come on, wheres your sense of humour? What happened to Nichiren Buddhism with a Grin?
This is all getting too strident for my ears.
I think Ill take off to samsara, and share some shrooms with Charles.
Ciao for now. (wooooom!)
Brian
Dear Lisa:
I agree with you completely. SGI is a cult. I was recruited into the SGI in 1972. I received my gohonzon on March 2 of the same year. I thought that after Mr. Ikeda came in 1990 that SGI was progressing into an organization that I could be proud of. But in late 2001 there were some very hurtful incidents that showed me that the old militancy, mind games, and abuse had returned. Actually, they never really went away. Like painting over a rusty bulkhead on a ship without removing the rust, SGI had only covered up its true nature with sugar coating and smiley face. Now the rust was popping out again.
I started to lose heart in the SGI. I felt used, duped and betrayed. I wondered if I had been in a cult all those years. I read Cults in Our Midst by Margaret Singer. I went to various websites on cults, including Steven Hassans. I found so many red flags in Singers book, on the cult websites and in other information I obtained (some from your website) that I finally concluded that SGI really is a cult. The last meeting I attended was in November of last year.
You can get out of the cult, but you must also get the cult out of you. In January I started looking for a therapy group where I could talk to other people who had been in cults to learn just how much SGI training had affected my thinking in ways I couldnt see. I found a group just a few miles from my home. When I talk to others in the ex-cult group about SGI, they understand exactly what Im saying because their former cults worked essentially the same way.
The duel nature of the SGI, the ocean vs. village culture that so many find confusing in trying to decide whether SGI is really a cult, is part of the deception.
Yes, SGI really is a cult.
Derrick Main
Well Lisa, I have just been reading some of the comments on this blog, such as Brian Campbell's for example. Boy! Talk about denial!
SGI - Reality vs. Theory
WHAT SGI SAYS ABOUT ITSELF
SGI is a democracy. Everyone is equal. There are no rules. Leaders have no authority. It is a bottom up organization, an inverted pyramid with the members at the top. When you see something wrong you should speak up to correct it. Daisaku Ikeda, who is the head of the SGI and believed to be a living Buddha and infallible, has said: "The age of orders from above and obedience from below is at an end."
THE REALITY
Appointment of leaders:
Leaders are appointed by leaders above them in the form of a personnel committee. The qualification for appointment is how much "faith" you have. General members have no say at all about who is appointed to leadership positions. The appointments are discussed and made behind closed doors. Appointments are for life. This is referred to as a "democracy of faith." You would have to be brainwashed or have the IQ of a house plant to believe that this is any kind of democracy.
Policy decisions:
Decisions are made by the appropriate level of leaders at closed meetings which are not open to general members. There is a chain of command, form top on down, like a corporation.
Criticism of the organization:
If a member is angry or upset about a policy, a decision or sees something terribly wrong, he will be told that he doesn't understand, that there is nothing wrong with the organization, it's really his negativity, that he has weak faith, he needs to chant more to raise his "life condition" so he will understand and see the wisdom of the policy. He may be told: "Those are your issues." "That's your reality."
If someone openly criticizes policies, pushes for genuine reform and enlists others in his efforts, leaders will, working behind the scenes, use character assassination to destroy the person's reputation to put a stop to his efforts and cut him off from other members. E.g. "His practice is incorrect, don't listen to him, he's going against the organization, he's screwed up." He will be seen as trying to destroy "True Buddhism," or disrupt the harmony of believers. Most members will accept whatever they are told if it comes from someone high-up in the leadership hierarchy, even if it goes against their own beliefs. They will default to the leader's "guidance."
Bad behavior by those in charge (such as verbal abuse):
If done by a leader, especially an important one, the behavior will be overlooked, the matter swept under the rug. The person pointing out the bad behavior will be told: "That's the way you're taking it." "Just ignore it, it's just that leader's way of behaving." "You're over-reacting."
Denial:
Most members believe that what SGI says about itself is the reality of the organization no matter how much evidence there is to the contrary.
I agree with your comments RE the SGI. My wife is a member and I hate it. Being an atheist, I don't know what the "gosho" says about any of it, nor do I really care. I just wish my wife could be independent of this cult and lead a life based on common sense and objective reality, instead of being dependent on the cult for emotional validation and its "guidance" for making even the simplest decisions.
I've lived 35 years happily religion-free, (with the exception of a brief attempt at going through the motions of SGI practice for my wife's sake - yuk) and I can't express how glad I am that I was never inculcated as a child with any sort of religious theology. I really hope I can spare my kids that sort of "education". My wife even tals of sending them to Soka University! No!
Lisa Youve done very well attracting the kind of people who will flatter you. According to the Sutra they are your true enemies not SGI.
Quote:
"According to the sutra text, the votaries of the Lotus Sutra in the Latter Day of the Law, who are so faithful in upholding the sutra that they are hated by others, are the true priests
of Mahayana. They are the teachers of the Law who will propagate the Lotus Sutra and bring people benefit. As for priests who are thought well of by others, who go along with other people's desires and so come to be revered, one should regard them as the enemies of the Lotus Sutra and as evil influences to the world. A sutra passage likens persons of this type to a hunter who spies sharply about him as he stalks a deer, or to a cat who hides its claws as it creeps up on a mouse. In just such a way, we are told, do they flatter, deceive, and mislead the laymen and women."
End quote:
My comments are mainly for Micha:
Micha, do you realize that you have not presented any evidence to contrast to what Lisa (or others) have said? You disagree with them but you offer no counters to their arguments. Instead you attack the individual who is making the points, attempting to discredit them emotionally, *exactly as cult members are trained to do*, or so it seems to me. Do you realize that your own behavior is one of the best supporting arguments for the case you are arguing against?
Do you have any substantive counters to any of these observations? Can you show instances where SGI is exhibiting organizational behaviors not consistent with those defining cults?
Personally, your arguments might be more effective if they were based on facts and information instead of emotions, but of course that's just my opinion.
Namaste, Engyo Mike Barrett
Hi Lisa.
The term "Cult" is loaded with lots of conotation and emotional baggage and is not very helpful. I much prefer the term Steven Hassan uses in "Combatting Cult Mind Control", "Destructive Cult".
He spends a lot of chapter 6 describing just what he means by the term "Destructive Cult" but also gives a short description on page 37, he says;
"In brief, it is a group which violates the rights of its members and damages them through the abusive techniques of unethical mind control. Not all groups which might be called "cults", because they appear to incorporate strange beliefs and practices, are necessarily destructive. A destructive cult distinguishes itself from a normal social or religious group by subjecting its members to deception or other damaging influences to keep them in the group."
I have often posted messages on the web taking the SGI-USA as an organization to task. I do not do this anonymously. No one from the SGI-USA has ever questioned me about this let alone told me to stop. I have spoken up in large meetings about organizational behaviors I think make us look bad. Others have disagreed but no one has tried to silence me.
Has anyone who might reasonably be called a leader representing this organization tried to silence you or urge you to desist in your efforts? That is the very least I would expect from a destructive cult. I'm pretty sure the answer is no or we would have heard about it by now.
The SGI-USA is no more a destructive cult, per Hassan's definition above, than I am Priscilla, Queen of the Desert.
Let's talk some more, Michael
Micha wrote, speaking to Lisa: "So you were demoted to a ghostwriter since your plan to implement your grandiose ideas did not materialized."
Well, Lisa, the game's up. Micha has exposed your true agenda and now there's no going back. I suspected all along that you really wanted to dominate the organization, and that all this talk of religious sincerity was hogwash. We all owe Micha a debt of gratitude for having the clarity of vision to discern this about you, and the courage to speak up.
Thanks, Micha!
Cheers!
Andy
Thank you Lisa!
Sarcasm will get you no where Andy,
I do not think you know what it means to have debt of gratitude.
Micha
Micha, please believe me that I am not a flatterer of Lisa's. Some of her stuff here is extremely witty, some not funny at all. So there! Many times I don't agree with her opinion.
I think that the subject we are currently discussing deserves serious study. It's not a funny subject, sorry. The way that SGI conducts its lay organization HURTS many people and has for years. I still applaud Lisa for her bravery in running this series of articles.
Anne
Just a quick note to those who are counseling staying with the SGI:
This is not about what is good for the SGI. This is about what is good for the human being. Lisa is not saying that the SGI has cultish aspects. She is saying it is a cult. It is absolutely ludicrous for her to be asked to stay in SGI to help it become better.
I liken it to people in abusive relationships. They try their best to make it work, but, when they decide to leave their abusers, it is a good thing. For someone else to tell them to stay with their abusers because the abusers need their help is, well, an act of aggression.
Imagine someone who hurls insults at you, tries to belittle your opinion, and threatens you with all kinds of bad things if you leave them, who then turns around and asks you to stay to help them become a better person when you decide youve had enough. It might actually work the first three thousand times, but in the end, the abuser is only seeking to perpetuate the abuse. Leaving them is a good thing. This is the very same thing that is happening in the SGI.
The SGI has made it abundantly clear to Lisa that it does not want her help. Lisa is making a healthy step in her development in writing this essay here. I only hope more people come to this realization.
Peter
Well, although there are many things I disagree with in the SGI, which is why I am so very loosely affiliated after almost 20 years, and also why I have been an IRG member and a reader of your website for quite a long time, I find the generalizations here too broad. I, for one, have NEVER EVER been made to feel that I will "suffer without the group". I have practiced virtually solo for over 10 years - I go to meetings once in a while, to see people I care about and chant with them. And they are always glad to see me and NEVER bug me about not being around more often.So... what does that mean? How does that reality fit into this analysis?
OTOH, my father went through Narcanon (a cover for Scientology) in the early 80s, and there I encountered PLENTY of people who were made to suffer, and were actively EXCLUDED from friendships when they decided not to practice that religion anymore. I can say from my exposure to BOTH groups that one has some majorly insidious behaviour enforced dramatically, whie the other is mostly some very misguided people being allowed to suggest trhough infuence that people should feel guilty or otherwise "bad" for not thinking the same way. And this happens in all organized faiths. I have a friend who used to teach Sunday School, and when she decided her faith wasn't up to the level required for that job, she was made to feel terrible for choosing to leave the church.
How is this very HUMAN behaviour exclusive to ANY organization? People have to feel like everyone thinks like they do (in general) to feel safe and part of the herd. I hardly think SGI has this quality cornered.
Hi, Lisa and all.
I stand with Gabrielle above who expressed a concern that Lisa's leaving the SGI would not be a good thing. The strongest argument against the Gakkai's being a cult, in fact, is this website. How many full-blown cults have bona fide alternative presses? Not many. In fact, not any. If Lisa were a Jehovah's Witness, she would have been "disfellowshipped' by now, as would many people who post in regard to the Gakkai on-line (here and at other Boards). If she were a Scientologist, there is a good chance that she would have been litigated into financial rubble. Buddhajones is, therefore, the single strongest evidence that the Gakkai is not a cult in the sense that most people are going to use the term. When the allegation is raised, allwe have to do is oint to this site, wrap Lisa in the American Flag, cite to the 1st amendment, and let everyone engage in the discussion and decide for themselves.
I think it is important to remember that the Gakkai (especially in the US and around the world outside of Japan) is a very young organization. I sometimes compare the Gakkai organization to the Disney movie , "Honey, I Blew Up the Kid" in which mad scientist Rick Moranis focuses a super-ray on his toddler, and the kid ends up bigger than a building, running amok in Las Vegas. As a religious organization, we just simply don't have the experience yet to act like a complete organizational "grown-up". We have the Daimoku (a very powerful practice, comparable to the super laser-ray), and we have had a lot of growth and exposure (and money) over the last 50 years - and fifty years is practically nothing as far as world religious movements go. Something like the Southwell matter (and the events which presumably led up to it) could be compared to the toddler sticking an electrical cord in its nose. Financial disclosure? Well, somebody needs to get in there and change that diaper, pronto ("oh, no, it's GREEN!" - please, no groans).
A lot of the difficulties in the Gakkai also differ from chapter to chapter, area to area and region to region, depending on the leadership. Prior to the web, we had no way of really knowing what was going on in other areas, but now information is traveling a lot faster. Is everything totally hunky-dory? No, but I do think we are seeing a lot "development" - we pray for the Gakkai's development every day in the new prayers, and there are a lot of ways to develop besides numerically. So hang in there, everybody, fasten your safety belts and let's have an interesting dialogue! Best, Byrd in LA
Byrd --
I receive threats, curses and ridicule from SGI members each week because of this web site, and some have threatened me with legal action. As for SGI Plaza's reaction, one employee dangled the prospect of future job contracts for me if I'd just "cool it," but assured me there would be no more ghostwriting gigs if I continued to allow pointed criticism of Daisaku Ikeda on this site. Rumors to discredit and demonize me have been spread by SGI leaders -- in one bizarre case, a staff member of SGI claimed that I never actually wrote any of the articles that carried my byline in the World Tribune. (Whatev.)
This site exists in spite of the SGI cult, not as evidence of SGI's wonderfulness, as you choose to believe. And it won't exist much longer -- just until June, when I'll allow my web hosting contract to expire. After that, you'll have to buy the book, so to speak.
For those who are unclear about whether I'm staying in SGI or leaving, uh: I'm already gone. Way. You can keep making excuses for SGI if you need to, but that's the problem, not any kind of solution, in my opinion. SGI is like a cage that members carry inside themselves. Daimoku is powerful, but I never knew how powerful until I got rid of the cage.
Take care,
Lisa J.
OK, panic?
June?
What?
P.
Well, P, maybe SGI will buy it. They've done that before to shut down web sites they find distateful.
I'm sorry I was misunderstood. Perhaps I was not clear that this site is not necessarily an indicator of the Gakkai's "wonderfulness", but rather that Lisa has not suffered the effects which members of other groups have suffered. Leaving a group voluntarily is not the same thing as having one's family and friends be forbidden to talk to one, or of enduring frivolous and expensive litigation. The fact that a "cult member" (even an ex-)could host such a site is a good sign. The fact that it has attracted so much attention and that so much energy has been directed toward discrediting it is a sign that some nerves have been touched - also a good thing.
Lisa, this obviously is not intended as legal advice (I'm not licensed ot practice in Colorado, anyway!) but people threaten legal action all the time in our society, that doesn't mean they have grounds. Obviously, it's offensive and non-boddhissatva conduct, but it's not the same thing as the expense of a real lawsuit. Also, dangling writing gigs with strings attached happens a lot in non- "cult" environments. It happens all the time in Hollywood, for example. Or maybe Hollywood is a cult of its own, I dunno. If your WT authorship is being held out wrongfully, then that may be a trade libel and you could always talk to a lawyer of your own.
I'm sorry this site is going down. It has been a refreshing opportunity to engage in debate and exchange with others in the Nichiren community. The fact that it was run by an "insider" gave the site more credibility with the Gakkai membership, but that does not impact the value of the opinions posted by readers one way or the other. In fact, I am certain that for every "cult" leader who has disparaged this site or has disparaged its editor, there is at least one member-at-large (if not more) who has been glad for the existence of an alternative press.
I'm sure it must have been a tiring fight, but I hope you will reconsider the value that this site has for many people, myself included. Take care yourself, Byrd in LA
Dear Lisa...
So...you're out...and this website no longer serves any constructive purpose except to wake-up those of us who are blind to the destructive manipulation of the "cult"...
What a loss! I so admired the idea of a "Soka Underground"...and your wicked sense of humor...
SGI will be a lesser organization without you...
But I will try to create value out of it all...
AS Brian Holly puts it so well...you bought into the "myth of the monolith"...the notion that those few at SGI Plaza ARE the SGI and we are merely unwitting "subjects"...
If you had reached this point in the 70s or the 80s I'd agree with you...but I cannot deny the enourmous steps toward removing these attributes that the SGI has taken in the last 20 years...
I feel as though you quit when the finish line was almost within sight, Lisa...
At any rate, I understand your frustration and accept many of your criticisms...at least one SGI leader is not an apologist for the SGI...
No, you're not doomed to hell...No, you will not be shunned...by me, at least...
But we've lost one Hell of a warrior for the SGI...one less voice for reform...
Stay tuned, Lisa...Brian and myself and many others will not give up the good fight...at least I hope not...
This is the reason I rail so strongly against financial secrecy...I consider it the litmus test of our ability to eschew cultish behavior...
It shall not stand...I only hope that I live to see the day when the SGI opens the books...
Until that day, charges like yours will continue to have some validity...
I am simply incapable of giving up, Lisa...and it is not because of "programming"...it is because there is no other body of believers so actively devoted to implementing Nichiren's intent...
I wish you all the best, Lisa...you are always welcome...
Thanks
David
I don't think Lisa has bought into the "Myth of the Monolith" at all. I think she has simply reviewed things with an educated eye, seen them for what they are and decided that, for herself, other choices may be better.
That's all. It's not a tragedy. It IS a statement about the SGI-USA, though. Many of the best and brightest leave, and the organization seems to be okay with that. It (the monolithic "it") makes no move to prevent their departure, to the point that the good people we know and care about (obviously speaking for myself here) cannot counter the negativity that is the corporate entity.
Too bad, and kind of sad, but I am confident that Lisa has a lot more to do in this world, and that she will do it regardless of affiliation with a particular, increasingly insignificant, Buddhist sect.
Cheers!
Andy Hanlen
Lisa, I feel like an idiot sometimes participating in discussions about SGI because of my short tenure, but I wanted to say that from my own experience it was difficult to leave despite that. The smiling faces, the assurances that all would be well as long as I chanted, supported the organization and attended meetings...so much positive encouragement as long as I shut down my intellect and towed the line. I did so happily for two years.
When they turned on the heat regarding my "relationship" with Ikeda, I even went as far as cutting a photo of him out of Living Buddhism, framing it, and hanging it in my home where I would see it every day. The "master/disciple" concept creeped me out, and I hoped that by hanging up that photo I could somehow overcome whatever it was that bothered me.
I haven't "officially" resigned from SGI, in that I still have my Gohonzon and I haven't said bluntly, "I quit". I did say I was no longer going to practice with the group--but I still get e-mail and unexpected phone calls with invitations to meetings (sometimes at 10:00 PM, when I'm in bed). Aside from that, I haven't really suffered any of the crap you've been put through.
I think the point I'm trying to make...and trying to make without upsetting anyone...is that it's one thing to say "I have problems with SGI" or "I practice independently, but still maintain positive contacts with SGI"...and an entirely different thing to take a proactive approach like you have in actively engaging the organization in critical dialogue. For the most part, my bitching about SGI is limited to the Internet.
The most I've done "in the flesh" is say during a district meeting that I thought Ikeda's writings were rambling and redundant, and I'd like to read material from other SGI leaders. I also mentioned how Scientology was bad about not publishing any "official" books without having L. Ron Hubbard's name on the cover...and I thought it looked bad for most of SGI's books to be "authored" by one person. That was pooh-pooed as an "Oh, he's a new member" issue...I just hadn't learned to LOVE Ikeda yet.
My recommendation to current SGI members wondering what they can do if they aren't ready to leave or become rabble-rousers...do like the Catholics do, who also don't get to vote for their leaders.
Vote with your money.
Don't renew your subscriptions. Download stuff from the Internet for free, if you have to have it. Stop buying those books--they all say the same thing anyway! (Scientology is notorious for this, too) During the May contribution drive, give your money to organizations that are doing REAL bodhisattva works, such as Amnesty International, the Humane Society, or other charities of your choice.
Despite my short time with SGI, I felt like I was leaving a family. While I don't think it's intentional, there is definitely a formula they've perfected to make you feel both loved and welcome...and dependent and worthless without them...at the same time. Since leaving, my fortune has increased dramatically...and having that last roundabout with fundamentalism has taught me a valuable spiritual lesson that will benefit me for the rest of my life. Still, it hurt. Sometimes good medicine poisons us just a little until it works.
Lisa, I wish you the best! Thanks for your courage!
Dwight
Polly Toynbee, Arnold Toynbee's granddaughter, was invited to Japan by Ikeda to meet him. She wrote an article about the encounter in the Manchester Guardian in 1984.
Here are three excerpts from "The Value of a Grandfather Figure" by Ms. Polly Toynbee (For the whole article go to http://www.toride.org/edata/toynbee.html) dead link
---Our host's style of conversation was imperious and alarming -- he led and others followed. Any unexpected or unconventional remark was greeted with a stern fixed look in the eye, incomprehension, and a warning frostiness.
---I have met many powerful men -- prime ministers, leaders of all kinds -- but I have never in my life met anyone who exuded such an aura of absolute power as Mr. Ikeda. He seems like a man who for many years has had his every whim gratified, his every order obeyed, a man protected from contradiction or conflict. I am not easily frightened, but something in him struck a chill down the spine.
---He sent us yet another silk-bound tome, in which there was no text, but only 296 huge full-page photographs of himself and his family -- a book of colossal narcissism.
This is the the real Ikeda and epitomizes what is at the heart of the SGI, which is really an extension of Ikeda's will. All the awards, the buildings named after him, the photos taken with famous people, the Boston Research Center, the many books he didn't really write (I wonder if he really understands the ideas in his own ghost written books) and his latching on to famous names are nothing more than a big facade to hide a self centered tyrant. Ikeda is a typical cult leader, narcissistic, dictatorial and manipulative. He's a store with a nice display window but nothing much on the shelves.
The naked truth is the emperor has no clothes.
Derrick Main
What you wrote about discovering the power of Namu Myoho Renge Kyo by leaving the SGI is so true. For those who wish to spend day and night counting Daisaku Ikeda's wealth, that is up to them. But they shall never become wealthy.
Well, I just started reading reading Buddha Jones -- and you are cutting out on me? Maybe Charles Atkins can host something along the same lines? Reading Chuck? How bout Atkins' Rantin's?
Or sumpin lik dat.
robin da rube
The most I've done "in the flesh" is say during a district meeting that I thought Ikeda's writings were rambling and redundant, and I'd like to read material from other SGI leaders.
Dwight
Dwight:
Youre right about that. They are rambling and redundant. All of Ikedas wisdom is taken from the great philosophers but rewritten to sound like him. For example, if you want to save some cash, buy The Art of Living. This small book of the teachings of the stoic philosopher Epictetus says what Ikedas books do, but in only 113 pages. There are other examples.
Derrick Main
The SGI does not have to behave like the Buddhist Borg Collective to be a cult. (Although it was the "Buddhist Borg Collective" in the 1970's and 80s) The control and manipulation are very sly and subtle. One message can be given verbally and openly while the opposite message is given through looks, body language, attitude or vibes. Subtle punishments and rewards are used. For example, when youre not acting with the right attitude or showing strong enough "faith" (obedience), youre kept out of an inner circle (not promoted). But when you do start toeing the line, showing your faith has grown, youre rewarded with a promotion (leadership position) into an inner circle. SGI has lots of levels of inner circles. The higher up you go, the more cult-like is the thinking, even though leaders do a very good job of hiding it.
Derrick Main
Sorry, I made a mistake typing the url for "The Value of a Grandfather Figure" by Ms. Polly Toynbee. Here it is again: http://www.toride.org/edata/toynbee.html dead link
Derrick
Until now, I wasn't aware of the extent of the harassment and abuse Lisa has been subjected to. In my 17 years of practice, and consistent outspokeness and nonconformity in the organization (refusing to hang up a picture of Ikeda in my dwelling because it didn't feel right to me was one of many acts of being true to myself), I have suffered my share of subtle and overt character assasinations, and it was extremely hurtful. What I have been through is slight compared to the indignities Lisa has suffered, so I can't blame her for leaving. I was simply saying I would miss her and others with similar sensibilities who have left.
Like Derrick Main, I also observed that cultish dynamics in the org. resurfaced big-time in 2001. Before that year, for all the disapproval I received, the support I garnered from members and top leaders was greater, which encouraged me to stay on. But this recent sea change, which perhaps, as Derrick stated, indicates that substantive progress was never made, is certainly unnerving. Yet for many reasons that do not stem from indoctrination, I, like Mr. Johnson, believe in that finish line at this point.
Depending on what the future brings, maybe my resolve will change; maybe not. Should events become unbearable enough for me where I see no other option to leave, so be it.
Gabrielle Wise
Sorry, my last sentence should have read, "...no other option BUT to leave..."
It's very late and my copy-editing skills are fading fast.
Good night!
Gabrielle
Lisa,
While I disagree with what you write about SGI, I am glad you finally just came out and said what you think. Now, there will be no question as to where you stand regarding SGI and Pres. Ikeda.
I bow to you Lisa, for you too one day shall become a Buddha.
-Craig
Dear Lisa
Please do consider keeping your website, it had been a tremendous source of encouragement for me. At the height of my most confusing moment on questions concerning SGI, I found my answers here and Chris's site too. Plus increase understanding of our practice from various articles posted here which help me keep my faith in this law. Thanks.
How about skipping soka undergound this time. Let this be an open site for independent contribution from all practitioners of Nichiren Buddhism.
Please do not let your effort and connection go to waste instead use it to help others like me. A SGI member who practice independently on my own.
shermaine
Andy posts: "I don't think Lisa has bought into the "Myth of the Monolith" at all. I think she has simply reviewed things with an educated eye, seen them for what they are and decided that, for herself, other choices may be better.
That's all. It's not a tragedy. It IS a statement about the SGI-USA, though. Many of the best and brightest leave, and the organization seems to be okay with that. It (the monolithic "it") makes no move to prevent their departure, to the point that the good people we know and care about (obviously speaking for myself here) cannot counter the negativity that is the corporate entity.
Too bad, and kind of sad, but I am confident that Lisa has a lot more to do in this world, and that she will do it regardless of affiliation with a particular, increasingly insignificant, Buddhist sect.
Cheers!
Andy Hanlen"
I know this post isn't very creative, but "ditto", Andy.
Plus, there is no myth of the monolith. It's for real.
Thank you Lisa, for making your research on this subject available to other SGI members. I am looking forward to seeing your future posts here where you clarify how you came to your present conclusion. My guess is that your "educated eye" was enhanced by much daimoku:)
Best to you,
Syren
I know this isn't very creative, but "Ditto" Andy.
I think we all know where lisa and others like her stand in terms of SGI-USA, no doubt there is some truth in her words, but I would like to see what type of model she would propose. A new SGI-USA if you will.
So Lisa, what would that look like?
Thanks,
robert
Andy wrote:
"Too bad, and kind of sad, but I am confident that Lisa has a lot more to do in this world, and that she will do it regardless of affiliation with a particular, increasingly insignificant, Buddhist sect.
Cheers!
Andy Hanlen"
If you feel the way you write about SGI, then why do you constantly post to SGI groups? What do you care about an "increasingly insignificant group." I suggest you do as Lisa seems to be doing...get on with your life.
-Craig
Careful, Craig. Someone from the "Don't Respond To Hanlen" patrol might see that you are (gasp!) communicating with me and you'll get in trouble. Next thing you know, we'll be having a meaningful dialogue about substantive issues. Can't have that.
Thanks for your concern, though.
Cheers!
Andy
Lisa - I am really sorry to read you have left the SGI. I don't know what else to say.
I am coming to understand the problems within the SGI and have not come to any conclusions yet about membership for myself yet. But I wanted you to know I am terribly sorry that you left the SGI.
I really appreciate this website and hope you can maintain a Nichiren Buddhist site into the future.
Colin
Just a couple of things.
First, no one has explained to me how I could practice virtually solo for 10 years plus, go to meetings when I feel like it, and find everyone is just as happy to see me as ever, and no one EVER has said ANYTHING about it (or done the listed negative behaviours that would somehow let me KNOW that I was in bad graces with someone or another)?
Other thing was that, reading Derrick Main's account of what SGI is vs. what it claims to be-- I was stunned to realize that *where I work* I am subjected to those behaviours. So, it seems that where I WORK they behave like a cult! This quote is what got me most (modified to apply to my workplace, not my district!):
"If (an employee) is angry or upset about a policy, a decision or sees something terribly wrong, he will be told that he doesn't understand, that there is nothing wrong with the organization, it's really his negativity (snip). He may be told: 'Those are your issues.' 'That's your reality'.
If someone openly criticizes policies, pushes for genuine reform and enlists others in his efforts, leaders will, working behind the scenes, use character assassination to destroy the person's reputation to put a stop to his efforts and cut him off from other (employees)."
This has absolutely happened to me, as a punishment for pointing out abject stupidity in the upper echelon of our (very small) company. Thanks for the insight. :-)
Shannon said:
"First, no one has explained to me how I could practice virtually solo for 10 years plus, go to meetings when I feel like it, and find everyone is just as happy to see me as ever, and no one EVER has said ANYTHING about it (or done the listed negative behaviours that would somehow let me KNOW that I was in bad graces with someone or another)?"
But, Shannon, when you go to meetings do you say, "Gosh, I think Ikeda's writings really stink?" or "Hey, what *does* this organization do with our money?" Do you persistently demand satisfactory answers to your questions?
As I said earlier, it's one thing to say you practice solo and still attend meetings...and an entirely other thing to say you practice solo and have stopped attending meetings, or raise hell over the obvious problems in the organization.
If you remain silent, you could stop attending meetings altogether and never, ever get pestered (aside from a few phone calls now and then, inviting you to a meeting). As long as they believe you are still chanting to your SGI issued Gohonzon, using the SGI approved liturgy, and not saying anything cross about SGI or Ikeda, you'll be fine. Showing up at meetings and not showing any sign of independent thinking only reaffirms their belief that you are a happy SGI member who just can't make it to meetings all the time.
One thing to remember, Shannon...Lisa was working along side the upper-crust of SGI. The publications staff are the heart and soul of the organization. Knowing how much material comes out of there that people can't even put their own names to it (who did write "The Winning Life" I wonder?), I'm surprised anyone could stay long. In Lisa's case, they had a lot more to lose than just a member who shows up to meetings now and then. They're losing an insider with some pretty harmful knowledge (i.e., Ikeda's use of ghostwriters and so forth).
Anyhoo...my two cents.
Take care.
Dwight
Someone asked what SGI should look like? Less like Daisaku Ikeda. It makes me ill that he earns royalties for ghost written books. Or uses money he "earned" off the member's sweat to buy awards for himself. There is something seriously amiss with the type of person who can do that, and live with himself. Taking credit for the work of others seems so pathetic. I once got too much change at a store, kept it, and could not sleep.
robin
Hey Dwight! Thanks for the reply!
You said:
"Showing up at meetings and not showing any sign of independent thinking only reaffirms their belief that you are a happy SGI member who just can't make it to meetings all the time."
And to clarify, I have never been a "go-along with things" member. I apologize for giving that impression, if I did. Lack of "buying into" the crap (vs the essence of the practice) is the *reason* I only attend meetins a couple of times a year, and they know it. I go to meetings because I like certain people. But my point is that the others, with whom I am not actually friends, have never harrassed me in any way. And there was probably a 4-year period during which I went to no meetings at all.
I have always been disenchanted with the "org", but I find my joy in the relationships with certain sophisticated people with whom I have been fortunate enough to practice for years and years. And of course, I find great joy in my own practice, that being the point of it all. :-)
I joined IRG as soon as I discovered it, and I guess I just wanted to clarify the record because if I didn't it might be left to some to think my practice was sort of PollyAnna, as you described. I am actually a PITA who asks questions and reads about all sorts of sects and such things.
Thanks again for taking the time chat with me!
Shannon :-)
Like Derrick Main, I also observed that cultish dynamics in the org. resurfaced big-time in 2001. Before that year, for all the disapproval I received, the support I garnered from members and top leaders was greater, which encouraged me to stay on. But this recent sea change, which perhaps, as Derrick stated, indicates that substantive progress was never made, is certainly unnerving. Yet for many reasons that do not stem from indoctrination, I, like Mr. Johnson, believe in that finish line at this point.
Gabrielle Wise
In 2001 when I saw that in my chapter the militancy and cultish behavior were back, I went on the internet and found that the same thing was happening in SGI in other parts of the world, not just in this country. The orders to return to the old behavior must come from high up in Japan. Im sure that Ikeda was the one who was responsible. He never intended to make good on all his fine words of March 1990. The promises to reform the org. were just a trick to keep people in the SGI, like dangling a carrot on a stick in front of a donkey. Ikeda was also responsible for the cultish behavior of the 70s and 80s. Top leaders wouldnt wipe their butts without getting guidance from him. Blaming Mr. Williams and other leaders for the bad behavior made Ikeda look innocent. When he came in 1990, he was our savior. It was like good cop, bad cop.
Derrick Main
Andy,
You are mistaken. No one has sad to specifically ignore your posts. I have done that on my own after reading them and deciding that they only serve to put me in the world of anger.
You have every right to post on the SGI boards (which specify that they are for members only I might add), but you have revealed here your true feelings about SGI. It is sad really. You have become what you hate (see NSA boards and your reponses for example).
-C
Greetings to everyone,
I am sorry to hear that Lisa is no longer a part of the SGI-USA.
I must point out several things...
NO religious organization, regardless of the type of their faith, is a free of any problems. Give me the name of any religious organization that is free of any problems and I'll prove you wrong.
I am sure almost everyone would want to slander Daisaku Ikeda all they want. Nichiren Daishonin went through the persecutions and nearly died for his beliefs. Of course, I experienced several religious persecutions of my own. I have met Mr. Ikeda several times and I don't see anything evil or cold about him. I think some people have their own perspectives of Ikeda based on their personal observations, but I encourage you not to misunderstand his own actions the same way your boss at work would look at your slow pace of work and blamed it on your lack of sense of urgency - he may not realize you have a couple of cracked ribs (for example) so you have to move around slowly.
Based on the definition of "cult" by Steve Hassan, every organization (or everything) in the world is a cult. Boy Scouts camping in Kansas, IBM in New York City, a sheriff's posse in Montana, Girl Scouts selling cookies in Arizona, heavy metal fans at an Ozziefest, a national political party in California, a production line at an outsourcing company, a football huddle on Sunday (yes, there are huddle procedures in their playbooks!), fans at a NASCAR event, a corporation board meeting in Silicon Valley, a praising chorus at a local church in your hometown, recruits at the military basic training course in Texas, a jury selection at a fraud trial in Virginia, rapid basketball fans in Indiana, fishermen and fisherwomen at a quiet blue mountain lake in Colorado, students in martial arts workouts in Chicago, members of Congress debating in Washington DC, etc, etc, etc, are great examples of cult. Based on my views and my personal experiences, SGI-USA is a family whose members come from all walks of life. Sure there are disgruntled members (I consider that as part of their human revolutions as they go through that phase of their lives) in our SGI-USA organization. Sure there are some lousy leaders in the organization, just like you have an incompentent boss at work (for example).
I was born into this practice and have been practicing for a long time. I am 39 years old. There were times I went to the meetings all the times and there were times I couldn't go to the meetings at all. No one in the SGI-USA ever abused me in any shape, way or form at all. Every one in the SGI-USA encourages me to be the best. No one ever gave me a hard time for not going to a meeting or unable to do an activity. In fact, they totally support me when I coach high school football in the fall and when I practice martial arts.
In my opinion, SGI-USA is not a cult. It is going through one of their human revolutions of its own right now and I am sure the SGI-USA will be the best religious organization in the world after their winter is over.
That's my 2 cents.
Jim Kuhn
hey lisa - and all the indys how ya all doing?-
i have been reading buddhajones for years now and i always felt a very independent vibration from you lisa...
welcome to the independent buddhist life. it is amazing and wonderful.
freedom is a great thing.
after 3 years of being independent i am still sorting out sgi-ism from buddhism. i am finding that they are very different and have even been looking into other forms of buddhism. it is so beautiful to be free.
way to go lisa - i pray you continue to share your humor and wisdom with all of us who love reading your work.
namumyohorengekyo
-maxi
"Sure there are disgruntled members (I consider that as part of their human revolutions as they go through that phase of their lives) in our SGI-USA organization."
Love this thinking. If you have a problem with the SGI, you simply need personal growth.
Couldn't just be the Gakkai...
P.
Great post James! You have hit the nail on the head. Most folks are not looking for spirituality, they are looking for perfection and that just ain't gonna happen.
SGI-USA offers my partner and I a wonderful place to practice with warm and inclusive members and a worldview that helps me be a better person.
Most folks who fall out with SGI, in my opinion, will never find that "perfect thing" and will always find fault with any organization they associate with.
Is SGI perfect? Nope. Am I perfect, well...okay, no. I am an imperfect person in an imperfect world united with an imperfect religious organization.
You rock, James! Keep chanting buddy!
Peace out,
Craig
Craig, I for one was not looking for perfection. I was looking for a degree of congruence between SGI's espoused values and actual values in practice that was simply not there. In fact, the incongruence was at such a level as I have never experienced it anywhere else.
Perhaps you and I have had VERY different expereinces. It sounds like we have. BUT, I would caution you that you are inferring that for the many many of us who have shared a similar expereince, this incongurence is of our own making, is the source of some flaw in our characters.
Having had such a terrible experience in the SGI, it is very difficult not to look at your attitude towards those of us who have bad expereinces as, at a bare minimum, unconcerned with looking at the deeper dynamics of the SGI. It feels like "blame the messenger." Heck, you're OK, right? Who cares about a bunch of people who aren't "evolved" enough to see how great the SGI is, right?
My question is, isn't it precisly us "sickees" who should be getting the most help in SGI, rather than being told how "wrong" we are in a way that drives us away? Should the "great vehicle" be only for those who want it exaclty the way SGI doles it out?
Just feels too self serving, in the face of Ikeda's billions of dollars (while he is called some great peace activist), the top down leadership structure (while the SGI proclaims it's egalitarianism), the talk of compassion (while chanting for Nikken's demise)...
It's a bit much.
P.
The mentality of "You will suffer if you leave SGI" is quite alive and well -- I was told that this January by a leader (and, I thought, a good friend): "If you leave SGI, your practice will become shallow and you will never become happy." In short, quit questioning us, do what we tell you, never leave us -- or bad things will happen to you. Well, I broke a chain letter ten years ago, and I am still alive, healthy, and have a roof over my head, so maybe I could survive leaving the SGI too (or at least not toeing the party line.)
As for the "nobody's perfect" argument...well...yes and no. True enough that any organization, religious or not, is going to have power struggles, personality conflicts, etc due to being filled with imperfect humans who have the ten worlds. That being said, the "nobody's perfect" argument can also end up being a cop-out. I could say that to my boss when he criticizes my work -- "Look, you're never going to find a perfect employee!" However, if I expect him to keep paying me, then I need to listen to, and be prepared to address his concerns about what I'm doing (or not doing), not just twist it so that it's his fault for having unreasonable expectations. (This is just hypothetical, you understand, actually I am the perfect employee. And my boss knows it.)
What is concerning me about SGI is not that there are problems; that's to be expected. The real, and the worst problem -- is that we can't seem to talk about the problems. Bring up a disagreement, a concern -- and you get dismissed. You are told that you are the problem, end of discussion. Relationships cannot survive when this kind of thing happens.
Lisa, I want to say to you "Thank you with all my heart" for this wonderful web site you have given to us. For so many years I have felt alone
in how I felt about the SGI & Pres. Ikeda. I was
one of the early pioneers in the 60's, but I could
never feel comfortable about sharing my thoughts & feelings I was having off & on for so many years. I now know that I am not alone in my thoughts. The basic teachings of Nichiren have never left my spirit through the years I've
been a fairly inactive member as far as the SGI
goes. (The past several years) I no longer subscribe to the WT & Living Buddhism. I do have
many books published by the SGI & back issues of
WT & Liv. Buddhism, enough to give me reading for
a lifetime. I am saddened to learn that you will
not be hosting this website after June, Lisa. Your courage & caring has meant a great deal to me
during my struggles with the SGI. I only discovered this website a few months ago. I wish I could articulate better my feelings about your wonderful website, but I have an illness that
causes me to have "brain fog" and my thoughts are
somewhat muddled much of the time. Thank you
again for all your caring efforts for us all.
Love,
Carol
What I'm thinking is that I would like to see Lisa write an honest and specific book about her experience in the Gakkai.
Mmmm, now that's good reading...
P.
Peter,
Sometimes you just have to get over your bad experiences. As a gay man living in the Bible belt, I've had plenty. You can either get beyond your issues or become bitter.
Sorry your experience in SGI was bad. I understand how that can happen sometimes.
If you want to process what happened to you in SGI, I would suggest doing it with someone in face to face dialog. The internet is not the place to process deep seated wounds such as you say you have because of your experience in SGI.
May you find peace,
C
Craig,
Are you responding to my post about perfection? Or the one about Lisa tell all book?
Either way, you respond not at all to the substance of what I've written.
For you to counsel me on my spiritual state is inappropriate to this discussion.
Peter
Peter,
I believe Craig was responding to either Susan's post or Carol's post.
Michele
Take another look, Michele.
That post was addressed to me.
P.
Peter,
Again, I am sorry you found my post so upsetting. I certainly am not trying to "counsel you on your spiritual state." I really am in no position to judge your spiritual state, nor do I care. What I do care about is the hurt you seem to carry from your experience in SGI. You have indicated time and time again that you have issues with SGI.
You wrote:
"Imagine someone who hurls insults at you, tries to belittle your opinion, and threatens you with all kinds of bad things if you leave them, who then turns around and asks you to stay to help them become a better person when you decide youve had enough. It might actually work the first three thousand times, but in the end, the abuser is only seeking to perpetuate the abuse."
All I was saying is that if you feel you have been abused, maybe you should seek some sort of help in order to get over it. It is hard dealing with abuse issues and the net is not the best place to process those issues. You are free to do as you will; this is America and we still have free speech. So if you want to continue to post your issues publically, then people are free to comment on them publically.
Peter, I do hope you find some peace over this issue. Nothing is worse than carrying around such a deep hurt.
-C
Actually Craig, I was describing what the Gakkai did to Lisa in that post. But yes, Im pretty vocal about my dislike about your religion.
Interesting perspective you have. Youre saying that if I feel abused I need some sort of therapy, that I have abuse issues. Im saying that a good dose of anger is a very healthy response to the Gakkai. Im talking about horrendous behavior on the part of the Gakkai and youre looking at it as my issue. I would think that an FBI investigation or the like into the workings of the Gakkai would be more appropriate treatment for such issues than some form of therapy. Talking frankly about how I feel about the Gakkai on the web is absolutely fine with me. Justice would be a wonderful curative for me.
Its presumptuous of you to continue assert that I should feel any other way about it. Of course, it does support your image of yourself as a member of a healthy, valid religion and not a cult. If wishes were horses.
I mean crap, Craig. Listen to how bloody condescending you sound: Peter, I do hope you find some peace over this issue. Nothing is worse than carrying around such a deep hurt.
P.