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March 10, 2004 Lisa

Nobody Joins a Cult

SGI is a cult? No, certainly not, I would tell my concerned friends and family members. Do I seem like the kind of person who would be in a cult?

No, certainly not, they had to concede. I was fairly smart and educated, fairly well off, and from a loving, stable family. I had a job, a mortgage and friends.

I know it may seem like a cult in some ways, I would tell people. But its not. Trust me.

No one had kidnapped me and forced me to join SGI. Rather, I was willingly persuaded. I heard the chanting of the Nichiren Buddhist mantra at a meeting in Los Angeles. I loved the sound and was intrigued by the practice. I wanted to know more about the philosophy.

SGI members were quick to inform me that the mantra and practice were under their stewardship, and they alone were charged with the duty of telling all humanity about Buddhism to bring peace to the world. I didnt really care about proselytizing or world peace. I just wanted to chant.

My new friends told me that there was no true Buddhism outside of SGI. I believed them. I didnt know any better. I knew nothing about Nichirens teachings.

Besides, the members were completely sincere, friendly and knowledgeable. They spoke a language that I wanted to learn doing human revolution and actively closing the gap. They all seemed convinced that they had a special mission in life. They were also very hard on themselves, talking about how they needed to overcome their arrogance, or saying that they were too stupid to understand some crucial Buddhist lesson, so they had to substitute faith for wisdom.

They deferred to the wisdom of their seniors in faith as they called their leaders. And they all spoke glowingly of Sensei, President Ikeda, even though most had never met him.

I liked almost everyone I met in SGI, and still do. I had no reason to doubt what they told me. They were relaying what they had been told by other people who were equally earnest and sincere. I trusted them, just as they had trusted their seniors in faith. So it hurt my feelings when people called SGI a cult, even in jest.

SGI used to be a cult, maybe, back when members wore uniforms and aggressively recruited people, I would explain. But that has all changed. We dont worship President Ikeda. We learn from him and try to emulate him. Besides, my life has improved since I joined SGI. President Ikeda always talks about freedom and the importance of the individual. Ive learned a lot from him about standing up and speaking out. Youd never learn that in a cult.

In SGI, cult allegations are usually dismissed as amusing paranoid fantasies manufactured by people who are jealous of SGI or intolerant of religious plurality, or who just dont get it. I have heard SGI members proudly say that being called a cultie by an outsider is a badge of honor, and makes them feel even more committed to the group.

But it really bothered me. My brother and I got into a loud argument about it one time, which really upset me. We deliberately avoided the topic at future family gatherings. Still, I couldnt understand why he wasnt more supportive of me. My SGI leaders encouraged me to chant for him. As if he was the one who needed to get a clue.

In retrospect, I think I was upset because I was afraid. Not just afraid that my brother might be right and I might be wrong, but afraid of something more fundamental and threatening that I could not articulate. I knew that something felt very wrong, but I didnt know what or why. I felt I was in danger somehow.

SGI members are programmed to believe (whether we are aware of it or not) that we will suffer if we get seriously crosswise of the SGI or part with it voluntarily. Only cowards, weaklings and corrupters leave the SGI voluntarily, we are told. We are convinced that the correctness of our Buddhist practice is dependent on our SGI affiliation, even if that affiliation is loose or sporadic. Being an absentee member for a few months is fine, but leaving SGI will invite the wrath of all the Buddhist gods and our lives will become nothing but misery.

During my years as an SGI member and as the editor of BuddhaJones.com, I have observed the extreme fear and superstition that SGI members feel toward their own organization. Many write to tell me about some crappy thing that happened to them in the SGI, but they beg me not to publish their letter, or to post it under an assumed name -- and some ask me not to tell anyone that they were even reading my web site. They are afraid of being in trouble with SGI, of being shunned, of having misfortune rain down upon them because they dared to displease "the org."

One of the reasons why I say SGI is a cult is because it instills in members this irrational fear that harm will come to them unless they remain members in good standing. Its not as if some leader says: OK, now were going to indoctrinate you with fear and irrational beliefs. We are indoctrinated with what it means to be a noble soldier of Soka:

You are the SGI. If you are not happy with SGI, you must work harder to make it better. Leaving the SGI is the same as trying to escape your karma, which cant be done. The people who quit are deluded traitors. Those who betray the SGI are betraying Nichiren. They will experience retribution. Those who leave come crawling back to SGI begging for forgiveness.

There is nothing in Nichirens teachings to support the notion that correct practice is dependent upon compliance with or commitment to a particular religious corporation. Its utter nonsenseunless a group of people you trust tells you repeatedly that its absolutely true, and you chant with all your heart to internalize the lesson.

It didnt start to dawn on me that SGI is a cult until I tried to leave. I felt overwhelming anxiety and uncertainty. I would talk with friends who were also trying to leave (and a few who had already left) and we would talk for hours at a time. We spent months trying to come up with excuses and explanations for why we should stay in SGI, even knowing what we knew about the organizations finances, fibs and noxious fundamentalism. We weren't interested in quitting our practice or joining any other Nichiren group (I'm still not), we just wanted to stop giving our tacit approval to SGI.

There are many in SGI who scoff at the notion of mind control. They shrug and say that every religion instills some measure of fear in its practitioners. Even Nichiren had his fire-and-brimstone moments. Yeah, to an extent. But Im talking about indoctrinating people with a fear that serves to benefit the religious corporation rather than the practitioner -- a fear that is not instructive or helpful, but is destructive and manipulative.

By contrast, I had been a confirmed Catholic for more than ten years before I decided to join SGI, but I never gave the Pope a second thought. I just moved on to a religion that I felt was better for me. Leaving the SGI, on the other hand, was difficult and terrifying. It took me years of chanting, months of talking, and a day of reading Steven Hassans books to understand why.

In Combatting Cult Mind Control, Hassan cites an anonymous quote that says it all: Nobody joins a cult. They just postpone the decision to leave.

Thanks for reading. I'll post another installment in a few days.

XX,
Lisa J.

Comments

Hi, Lisa:

I've been fighting the cultish aspects of SGI for years, but still believe it is the organization most powerfully fulfilling Nichiren's intent...and we both know that his teachings are unshakeably valid!

I know that the members...at least the vast majority...are totally sincere and dedicated...

I also know that we've made tremendous improvements over the years...

I am personally convinced that financial transparency is the ultimate "litmus test" of our victory over cultishness...and I have not been able to get any movement on that...

I understand and accept your decision to leave..and, yes, it hurts me like hell...not because your life is ruined..because you have so much to give us..and because I can see myself in the same situation...and am doing everything possible to change it...

If the teachings of Nichiren are true, then I can change this organization! I'm making the causes...the question is...can I hang in until the effects manifest themselves...

Let me share with all of you a letter I wrote to a friend who is also a vice general director...

(those of you who agree with me might want to take some action on your own to make a cause for the future of the SGI)

David
****************************

Hello (name withheld):

Obviously you were offended by my last remarks about financial disclosure being an impediment to kosen rufu....I was not trying to be "demoniizing", as you said...

I was heartbroken to see Lisa Jones become increasingly negative and finally leave the SGI, labeling it a "cult"...it was like a dagger to the heart...it's everything I want to avoid...and I seem powerless to do anything about it...

The issue of financial disclosure has reached critical mass in my life, and I don't know how to keep going...

I know you think you're somehow protecting the organization by keeping our finances a secret...but I'm here to say that's dead wrong...with every fiber of my being...

I don't know what skeletons are in the SGI closet, but you've had 30 years to clean house...it's time to shit or get off the pot...the "cure" is worse than whatever "disease" you're fighting...

There are two huge issues here...first is the actual policy of financial secrecy...

The second may even be more problematic...the SGI's absolutely cowardly evasion of the issue!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but SGI has never offered a public defense of its financial secrecy policy...the only explanations are offered by individuals speaking on their own behind closed doors...

I defy you to show me an example of Nichiren ever evading a tough issue!

On the contrary, he welcomed such tough inquiries...and often formed the Gosho around such tough questions...wherupon he would defeat the argument presented...

Ah, there's the rub! The fact is that you HAVE no argument strong enough to defeat the call for transparency...so, in order to "protect" the membership, you simply hide from the question...

The publications are a lifeline for the members...they ought to offer solutions to issues troubling us...but in this case, there is nothing but a wall of cowardly silence...

You attacked my claim that financial secrecy is counterproductive to kosen rufu...please listen to this letter from a member in L.A:

"... the problem of financial disclosure is something which seriously impacts some peoples' ability to propagate the daimoku. In my case, I have a family full of educated people, some of them highly placed in governmental positions (elected and appointed) - there is no way I can convince any of them to associate with an organization which is not financially transparent - it would be professional poison. This places me as a member in a very difficult position, since I essentially have to "write off" a whole class of people (some of them very powerful, but certainly with karma to change, like all of us), and resign myself to the fact that they're not going to practice in this lifetime. Why? Because they're honest public servants who want to be able to honestly answer their constituents? The Southern Baptist Convention, which believes that God made women to be inherently inferior, offers their members an accounting, and I have nothing to show.

So, I have to resign myself that my family will not practice - not because they're resistant to the ideas of Buddhism. I'm resigning myself because the organization has chosen a policy which basically
ties my hands. For people who work with the public trust in their daily lives, the question of finances is a threshold issue. My problem is that there are people I care about and wish to encourage -
but I can't get past the threshold with them.I mean, can you imagine a federal judicial nominee trying to explain to Orin Hatch how s/he is associated with a very politically powerful Japanese
organization, that asks for money from its American members but doesn't account for it? Good luck, Charlie.

There's a whole class of people who could benefit from the practice, but aren't -- because of a policy over which I have no control and into which I have no input. I need something to give these people more than "asking for an accounting is considered bad manners in
Japan" -- no borderline competent legal professional is going to repeat that excuse if they want to retain their credibility.So, it boils down to whom you are trying to deal with in your
propagation efforts. If you're dealing with people who also do not particularly care about an accounting, then it's really not a problem. If you're asking potential new members to choose between a strange new faith and their professional reputations, that's a different matter, and I think it's an unfair to put members and their families in that position...


(name withheld)
**********************
In the latest World Tribune...(March 5, 2003),President Ikeda writes:

"..Growth and development require change and innovation.Innovation cannot take place when fresh ideas are ignored or suppressed.Be grateful for constructive opinions and pay attention to them...."

"...We cannot remain silent in the face of injustice.When we see something wrong, we must say so. Striving with strong determination and persistence until we root out injustice is the way to protect our harmonious organization dedicated to truth and justice...."

Is financial secrecy an "injustice"? I believe that it is...that it is unjust and unfair to ask members for donations while refusing to account for the use of those funds...It is disempowereing...Disempowerment has no place in our organization...As a follower of Nichiren and President Ikeda,I have no choice but to continue fighting against this policy... Every time I read a gosho...every time I read President Ikeda's guidance...I see it right there in print..."Don't give up, David!" "Never be defeated, David!" "You are needed for kosen rufu, David! "You know what alienation is like, David!"...It is your mission to prevent good people from leaving, David!"..."You must create a better SGI, David!"...

In the face of this, you can understand why I must ignore the voices of those who say "don't make trouble, David"..."The problem is all in your head, David"..."Your leaders know better than you do, David"..."you're breaking unity, David!"..."Your faith is weak, David!"..."You don't trust the SGI, David"...

The only way I can repay my debt of gratitude to the SGI and its pioneers is to help make a better SGI that resonates with the American spirit...and if that means questioning the correctness of old ideas and old leadership...so be it...

It has reached the point where those leaders who insist on an SGI "wall of silence" around this issue, in my opinion, should ask themselves whether or not they should remain in their positions...either be part of the solution or get out of the way...

My mentors offer me no choice...I will neither be silent nor disengaged...My message is neither negative nor disruptive...it is the voice of reason...the certain voice of the future...To silence myself would be to act as a traitor to my mentors and to the SGI...and that I will never do.

Please distribute this letter to Danny Nagashima, Tariq Hasan, Matilda Buck, Guy McCloskey and anyone else you think should read it...

Thanks for your continued selfess efforts for the sake of the membership...

David Johnson


Excellent, David, Excellent. - Brian

Exactly, Lisa! This "thing" SGI does with dissenters and people who want to seek a different religious path is just evil. I have been practicing with SGI for over 30 years, and believe me, the FEAR of criticizing SGI, let alone LEAVING SGI has been deeply ingrained in my psyche.

Yes, the leadership and membership do this, and it's constant. I again say that it's evil, maybe not intentionally so, but definitely evil.

As I posted somewhere else, I love chanting, love it! I can't honestly say that I love SGI, even though I appreciate having found my buddhist practice through them.

I don't love them because some of their nasty, cultish, mind control tactics have harmed too many people. Even though I wasn't active with the IRG group, the SGI reponses to them were a wake up call for me. I was horrified, since I still do think that most of their points were well taken. That's group control, baby!

Presently, I don't attend ANY SGI meetings, and have found that chanting on my own is now a healing tool. Many members have said over the years "Well, chanting works so well, then SGI must be the correct vehicle." I don't agree. SGI in its current state has nothing to do with the kind of buddhism I wanted to practice, i.e. Nichiren's buddhism, as per my own understanding of it from the various Goshos, and as taught, in some of its more positive writings, by SGI.

So, if SGI wants to continue in its very unbuddhist ways, I guess lots of potential members will just have to say "No Thanks."

Write that book, Lisa,
Yay


Micha? Are you out there? More salt please...

Rev. Greg

Lisa,

I know of people who are Homophobic. However I have never met someone who is Cultaphobic. You certainly fit this diagnosed personality

You are infected with a new disease called CultAphobia and you dont even know it.
You are actually reinforcing this infection to others that has the symptoms too.
You should go to see a shrink. It might help you.

After all you are the one who is suffering from it.
It cannot be that 10 million people around the world are infected with a cult syndrome and you including handful of people are recovered from it.

You defiantly extracted CultAphobia.
Chant about it!

Micha

What are you Micha? A Cultophile?

Lisa, I have to say that I hope allmy railing has in some small measure helped you along your way. Or at the very least, not helped to slow you down in your process! It's great to hear you let loose. Clear as a bell.

Peter

The following is a reply to David and comment to Micha. Micha, do you understand Yiddish. There are some important words my mom would have had for you. The least offensive might be nudnik. Understand.

I have consulted with several friends before posting the following as I did not wish to go too far out on a limb, so it is addressed in the plural and represents a common position of five long-term members in the Los Angeles area.

We have been around this organization for some time and based on extensive dealings with the WCC and SGI Plaza believe they use a dual accounting system and transfer funds as needed. This is not unethical or illegal and is used in many corporations, but it can be used to disguise the true costs of operating SGI-USA.

The first set of books deals with donations from members and operating expenses. SGI-USA has in the past made claims they receive no funds from Japan and financially independent. This is correct to a point. Donations from members in the form of monthly zaimu and annual contributions are generally used for operating expenses. By operating expenses I mean some rents and utility bills, copier maintenance, toilet paper, cleaning supplies, paper clips, and the usual Office Depot stuff needed to keep community centers going.

Some of these expenses, including major maintenance and repairs, are paid for by Japan. This appears to be on a facility-by-facility basis, directed to the facilities financed by Japan.

The second set is for activities related to supporting President Ikedas movement, and efforts and initiatives directed by SGI-Japan. Almost all activities related to the United Nations, the recent sojourn to Jordan to visit with the Club of Rome, likely the Gandhi-King-Ikeda exhibit including travel expenses for Dr. Carter, meetings with so-called Friends of SGI (do these still exist?) and, of course, all direct and indirect expenses related to visits by President Ikeda are paid for by Japan.

Sometimes these activities are coordinated with SGI-USA activities. A hypothetical example might be Danny Nagashima visiting the Atlanta Community Center when the primary purpose of his visit is to help bestow the GKI awards. The tab for this would be picked up by Japan. Its not like a separate timesheet is collected but an appropriate amount of the costs for SGI-USA support are passed on to Japan. Airfare and lodging for leaders training events in Japan are always paid for by Japan.

Travel, lodging, and meals for leaders attending the Florida Nature Culture Center are paid for by the participating members and is included in the fee charged. Operational expenses and employee salaries for the FNCC are paid for by Japan, as this project was initiated by them.

Operating costs and salaries for the Boston Research Center and the Toda Institute in Honolulu are covered by Japan.

With certain notable exceptions, salaries for SGI-USA employees are paid out of operating expenses.

It is hoped this provides a clearer picture of how SGI-USA is financed. If there are any questions and any comments that supplement this understanding please address them to us through this blog.

Regards.
Mike Y.

To Micha,

PS: Bring It On!

I assume you agree 1000% with every word and action of President Ikeda and SGI-Japan and SGI-USA. If not, have you communicated your concerns or objections? Can you provide any examples as many who post on this blog and on newsgroups have? It would be worrisome if you agreed with every little thing.

Practicing almost 35 years I have known many who have publicly and privately voiced their concerns. It is hoped you have the fortune to also listen to your members hearts and learn more about their concerns. They do exist.

I work for a very large company and it would be unseemly for me to wash our dirty laundry in public. We do, like almost every organization, have some. For an organization that presents itself as the saviour of humanity it is essential these and other issues be addressed. How can you shakubuku someone and then have them tell you they don't want to be involved no more based on what they read in the papers or on the internet. Obviously this cuts both ways and it is incumbent fot SGI-USA to make it cut in the best way for kosenrufu. Unfortunately, through revisionist history and philosophy these issues are not being resolved and will likely continue for some time. How do you address, for example, rewriting the entire relationship with the priesthood out of the Human Revolution? How do you explain the abject refusal of SGI to translate gosho that mention priestly responsibilities? There are gosho that mention toba. Remember those? Is this not slander of Nichiren's teachings to not spread what he taught?

I am not interested in being critical of you or SGI-USA. What is important is that eyes be opened to valid concerns about our movement. Just to blow them off as rumblings of a small minority won't cut it. This minority is bigger than you think but most are fearful of opening thier mouths. Soon more will and then what will happen.

You are not from america. Take the time to read some of our founding documents and learn the American spirit.

You have my sincerest daimoku.

Mike Y.

I think (and have stated before) that Micha is a pretend person, planted here and elsewhere around the Internet to make the SGI-USA look bad. It is certain that, if I were to try very hard to invent a character that would make everyone's worst fears and feelings about the SGI seem true, I could not do better than Micha.

Come on, "Micha," you work for Nichiren Shoshu, don't you? Or maybe the Japanese government? Certainly you are too much of a caricature (look it up in a dictionary) to be real. Nobody real could be that obtuse. Anyway, good work!

Cheers!

Andy

" Nobody real could be that obtuse. "

I could, Andy.

P.

Mike:

Thanks for the input...it does not, of course, in any way approach a financial disclosure...

If the SGI is so adamant on financial secrecy, then they owe the members an explanation and defense of that policy...

Where is the explanation of this policy...on their website?? In the World Tribune??....Where is the corporate spokesman on this forum?? On any forum??

This is my 31st year of practice...we're a different organization now than we were then!

But we still have a great chasm to cross...really two...

I want to help us make these transitions~

The first is from a Japanese subsidiary to an autonomous American organization...

The second is our transition into the post-Ikeda era...

Both are paradigm shifts...and they ought not be piled up on top of each other...let's get on with the first one now!

Financial secrecy is the Goliath of our cultish attributes...and I'm, well, David...

Everybody, everywhere seems to be so critical of Micha. He should be appreciated for his determination and courage fighting for what he thinks is correct.

He reminds me of my cousin Vinny. A Joe Pesci lookalike if there ever was one. Makes me think of his role in Goodfellas, but my cousin sells life insurance. Vinny is this little guy who to make up for stature, does so with bombast and exageration. Makes me also think of a weed that just keeps on popping up through the flowers. Ahhh, the Lotus in the muddy pond! Got that, Micha.

We've come a long way in 43 years. A real long way. A recent example is the series on God in LB. Who, ever, thought the organization would equate the efforts of practicing Buddhists with that of other faiths. 10, 20, 30 years ago. Never! This is real progress.

I sincerely beleive there are a number of top SGI-USA people who think the books should be opened and that the organization should not only be transparant, but totally pellucid.

The present policy is Japanese policy modelled on Japanese corporate society. Just read about the banking problems and politics over there for the picture. Secrecy is the norm. Any and all responsibility is diffused. The nail that sticks up...

All the organization must fear are the members themselves. Questions will be raised about why certain amounts are allocated to certain projects. What are the intended results? Is this worthwhile, and the like? And the membership should! There are real political battles the organization does not wish to confront and many members may not be satisfied with the results. We have many activist members who wish to see the support of SGI-USA be focused in their direction.

I suspect the present system is the lesser of many evils, for now.

Mike Y.

"Everybody, everywhere seems to be so critical of Micha. He should be appreciated for his determination and courage fighting for what he thinks is correct." ---Mike Y.

I disagree, Mike. Mental hopsitals are full of people who are determined to fight for what they think is "correct" at all costs. Go to Belleview and have a chat with four Napoleons and a half dozen Jesuses and they might help you to see the danger of too much confidence in one's own opinion.

P.

Aha! Peter is Micha! I should have figured that out months ago! It makes perfect sense. Good job, Peter. You've had us all going for quite a while.

Cheers!

Andy

I might be able to as obtuse as Micha and still be real, but I could never mastermind such a coup on purpose!

P.

Mike:

You said:

"...I expect the present system is the lesser of evils, for now..."

20 years ago I was told "we're working toward disclosure...give us another 10 years..."

10 years ago I was told "give us another 10 years..."

A few months ago an area leader told me" give them another 10 years.."

At some point a person grows cynical...we're "working toward disclosure" with the same zeal that congress is working toward election reform...

They're both issues that everyone favors...but no one actually makes happen...

The word is "disingenuous"...to be polite...

So, do I stay...or resign from the SGI?
It's a painful decision...because I dearly love the SGI on the one hand...but am ethically opposed to financial secrecy on the other...and there is no indication that this will happen in my lifetime...

Wow!...What a reality...after 30 years...I've grown old trying to change a policy everyone agrees needs to go...now I'm bald, fat and losing my teeth...and we're still in the same boat!

What's wrong with this picture? How can I rationalize my continued membership in an organization with such a policy?

Why do my fellow members care so little about the issue? Why do they say "I don't want to know about SGI's finances"...or "I give my donations sincerely...that's all that matters..."???

What place is there for a person like myself in the SGI?

Am I the resident "irritant"...? the grain of sand in the oyster that keeps bugging it until it envelops me in a pearl...?

I grow tired...

David

I love you all!

Some times I wander if we practice the same teaching.

Based on your responses you are all just doing a lip service to call yourselves Nichiren's disciples.

Micha

P.S.
Andy! You cannot get any lower with your comments, youve reached the bottom long ago.

Mike, it is not how long you have been practicing that make your comments sound. Based on your comments this practice did not do any good for you. You are wasting your time. The weeds you are seeing sprouting in your mind.

Can you imagine, if everyone will agree with you, youll have no one to quarrel with.

It is probably a good idea to leave you all alone to remain with your distorted minds.

David --

Have you seen Ryuei's latest entry? I think it may help put things in perspective.

http://www.buddhajones.com/Ryuei/archives/000102.html unavailable

Lisa

I used to practice in the same chapter and HQ as Andy. He encouraged me to find my own reason to make Pres. Ikeda my mentor. For that I am greatful, I have had many profound encounters with Pres. Ikeda. On the other hand, he also encourged behavior that he now critics. It's not the philosophy that we are having to deal with, it's people that misinterpret the teachings.
-r

"...I have had many profound encounters with Pres. Ikeda."

Could you define, describe, explain, a one or two of these profound encounters, Robert?

Peter

I will ignore Micha.
I will ignore Micha.
I will ignore Micha.

So if it had been really easy to leave the SGI, this would mean the SGI is not a cult?

Breaking up is hard to do.

Lee

Lee, maybe you should ask Steven Hassan:

http://www.freedomofmind.com/resourcecenter/faq/#2 dead link

Lisa J.

On his website, Hassan wrote: (A destructive cult) uses deception in recruiting new members (e.g. people are NOT told up front what the group is, what the group actually believes and what will be expected of them if they become members).

Sounds a bit like SGI's tactic of failing to tell most new members about adulating Ikeda and becoming involved in the Temple Issue. None of the introductory material went as far to suggest Ikeda was supposed to be my "hero", nor did it mention the Temple Issue...oops, Soka Spirit. The people that introduced me to SGI just told me that it was all about chanting for the happiness of myself and the world.

Robert wrote: "I used to practice in the same chapter and HQ as Andy. He encouraged me to find my own reason to make Pres. Ikeda my mentor. For that I am greatful, I have had many profound encounters with Pres. Ikeda. On the other hand, he also encourged behavior that he now critics. It's not the philosophy that we are having to deal with, it's people that misinterpret the teachings."

Hi, Robert. I guess I agree with everything you wrote here, although perhaps for reasons different from what you intended. Anyway, yes, I absolutely bought into the entire Gakkai mythos as a young man in the old NSA, or at least I followed the forms in public, and I've never said otherwise. I did my best to live up to the "YMD spirit" and seek to "respond to President Ikeda."

We all make mistakes, and we all grow and learn. I came to realize how silly all that was, and how much it actually works against our real mission as bodhisattvas of the Earth: to widely spread and teach this Buddhism. That stuff works fine for a small percentage of the population that is in need of it, but it will never fly in a mainstream American religious movement, nor should it.

We live and learn, yes? I'm almost 53, now, and I can say, with great confidence, that I have more knowledge, experience and wisdom than I did when I was 23. Much of that was gained through great pain, and much more through great effort, and all of it in that period of time through and around my practice of Nichiren Buddhism.

And yes, much of that was with old NSA and then the SGI-USA. No complaints, and no regrets, and it came time to move on. It's not a tragedy when a kid goes from elementary school to middle school, or from high school to college, or from college into the work place.

It IS a tragedy if that kid stays in elementary scholl, though, isn't it?

Cheers!

Andy

Why should I want to ask Steve Hassan? Does he answer rhetorical questions?


I apologize if I was being glib.

A person joins the SGI, devotes their heart and soul to the organization, its mission, and ideals.
Then they feel betrayed by that organization. Leaving the organization would be a gut-wrenching, anguished descision. This does not make the SGI a Cult.

There are 50 ways to leave your lover.

Lee

Lee, I get your point. The statement I was referring to, in answer to your question, is:

"Benign cult groups are any group of people who have a set of beliefs and rituals that are non-mainstream. As long as people are freely able to choose to join with full disclosure of the group's doctrine and practices and can choose to disaffiliate without fear or harassment, then it doesn't fall under the behavioral/ psychological destructive cult category."

But to elaborate on your analogy of SGI membership being like a romantic relationship: "Breaking up" can be difficult and painful not just when the relationship was wonderful, but also when the relationship was unhealthy, manipulative or even abusive.

Take care,
Lisa J.

Hello:

One of the things that hurts me so much is the "wall of silence" that SGI leaders put up against dissenting members...

I write the SGI staff all the time...only one Vice General director responds consistently and with great effort to address my concerns...

the others NEVER..and I mean NEVER...reply to my dissenting opinions...

On many occasions, as a test, I've sent fluffy, meaningless,"happy, happy, Joy,Joy" notes to the general director and others...stuff like "the faces of the Kotekitai glowed in the morning sun as our chapter joyfully celebrated the victorious year of joyfully victorius victory..."

EVERY one of those letters received a reply from Danny's secrectary, to the effect that "The general director asked me to convey my congratulations on your joyfully victorious victory...etc"

This is a polite formality, of course...

Don't dissenters deserve the same kind of politely formal reply?? Or at the very least, an acknowledgement that they got the message?

I'd be happy with: "the general director read your letter...he thinks you're an arrogant asshole, and asked me to convey an extended middle finger..."

At least that's more polite, in my opinion, than absolute stone silence...and NO acknowledgement of the letter's receipt...!

It really confirms one fact...as far as the General Director is concerned,dissenters are worthless fucks who do not deserve to be acknowledged...

Thanks, Danny...way to go...!

Are you all proud of your General Director?

Here's to the "gloriously joyful year of victoriously gloriously joyful Victory!"

AAO-AAO-AAO! WAAAAAAAA...SHOOOOI!!!!

May I suggest a theme for 2004?

"The year of saying "fuck you" to all independent thinkers who dare to question SGI's authority!"..

It may not rhyme...but at least it's truthful!
David Johnson

PS...Danny...I double dare you to post a reply!

(Oh, I forgot..."death defying dialogue" is much less effective than cowardly evasion...)

Wow. David is on a tear today.

We must remember that they only need one third of all the people to chant in order to save the world. Perhaps they figure to make up for some of us along the way.

Sometimes they're not just like a bull in a china shop, but one with tri-colored glasses and tunnel vision.

Unfortunately many antiSGI'ers - in my view - are like Satanists vs. the Catholic Church. Without the Church the would have no game, and in fact many of them have a deeper karmic relationship with the Church than many Catholics.

David states; "I write the SGI staff all the time...only one Vice General director responds consistently and with great effort to address my concerns"

I don't really know what to make of that except to say "lead, follow or get out of the way", followed by "if you have to ask permission, the answer is no". Of course one could also state "a bird in the bush is better than a bull in the China shop" and "Don't count your chickens until the eggs hatch", but I won't go there.

I think you get my meaning...

Rev. Greg

Thanks, Mike for your outline of the financial issue. It does not, however, address the problems which some of us have in doing shakubuku in light of the issue. I may be satisfied to hear that there are two sets of books and that Japan pays for FNCC expenses and Sensei's expenses that's fine, but it does not satisfy others who may be interested in practicing but who consider financial disclosure to be a litmus test. As log as we maintain the current policy, we're still stuck defining who can and cannot attain Buddhahood through practicing with the SGI in terms of the SGI's disclosure policies. It defines "faith" not interms of Buddhahood, ultimately, but in terms of financial trust, and that seems to me to be off the track. Thanks for trying, though. B in LA

Lisa,

After rereading your post few times I came to the conclusion that the issue is not you leaving SGI or even branding SGI as a cult There are tens of thousands who left SGI throughout the years and not all of them left because they thought SGI was a cult. There are countless reasons for people to choose not to remain in SGI most of them quit practicing altogether and not all of them are leaving because they cannot leave. It is easy to leave but to stay and practice a correct faith with the body of believers is quite difficult.

You see, had you practiced this teaching, not out of fear but rather out of understanding to what Nichiren is conveying to all of us particularly those who chose to practice his teaching as he prescribed, you would just quit because it is too difficult for you to maintain pure faith and that is the end of it. What you are not seem to realized is that you are committing one of the 5 cardinal offenses that according to Buddhism is one of the most dreadful and the retributions are awaiting to your life is beyond imagination.

Causing disunity among those who wholeheartedly strive to propagate and attain the way is the most severe slanderous cause you can make. You are doing it quite undisturbed. This is not a scare tactic to make you remain in a cult it is to make you realize that if you do or you do not truly practicing, you are not exempt from these retribution to occur in your life.

In the Heritage of the Ultimate Law of Life Nichiren wrote:

All disciples and lay supporters of Nichiren should chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo with the spirit of many in body but one in mind, transcending all differences among themselves to become as inseparable as fish and the water in which they swim. This spiritual bond is the basis for the universal transmission of the ultimate Law of life and
death. Herein lies the true goal of Nichiren's propagation. When you are so united, even the great desire for widespread propagation can be fulfilled. But if any of Nichiren's disciples disrupt the unity of many in body but one in mind, they would be like warriors who destroy their own castle from within.

In The Sage and the Unenlightened man Nichiren wrote:

The wise lay believer replied: "The five cardinal sins are killing one's father, killing one's mother, killing an arhat, shedding a Buddha's blood, and disrupting the harmony of the Buddhist Order.

So it is not the fear of leaving SGI that people should watch out for, but rather it is committing slander against those who strive to practice and disrupting the unity of believers, one should fear the most.

If what you are doing is equivalent to killing your own mother and father according to Buddhism shouldnt you feel any remorse for your actions?
This is the last time I will address you and after that you on your own to really fulfill the words of the sutra with your actions.

In the Three Obstacles and Four Devils Nichiren wrote:

This time I am sure that you will give up your faith. If you do, I have not the slightest intention of reproaching you for it. Likewise, neither should you blame me, Nichiren, when you have fallen into hell. It is in no way my responsibility. It is an undeniable fact that fire can at once reduce even a thousand-year-old field of pampas grass to ashes, and that the merit one has formed over a hundred years can be destroyed with a single word.


Micha said, "Causing disunity among those who wholeheartedly strive to propagate and attain the way is the most severe slanderous cause you can make." Let's change three words:

"Causing disunity among those who wholeheartedly strive to propagate and 'follow the leader' is the most severe slanderous cause you can make.

And Hitler wiped out six million...Stalin 60 million...Mao, another 45 million.

History is replte with examples of people that were different in thought, race, habit, or appearance and were slaughtered like cattle because they thought different and did things differently. Simply because we joined SGI and chant Nam Myoho Renge Kyo we are not programmed to be Ikedabots.

You're the one who will go to any hell because you dish out fear and it's a bear based on stupidity, arrogance, anger, and a desire for a society filled with mindless drones.

There's the old Apple Computer Super Bowl commercial where these mindless drones are watching a computer screen and someone comes over and bashes the screen. Wake up Micha. this is not the 12th century where people are enslaved by the past. Life is incredibly dynamic and we move forward.

Are you saying there is but one single path to happiness and that is solely and exclusively the property of SGI-USA? Such incredible bullshit!

Even President Ikeda didn't pull that on his old buddies Noriega, Ceaucescu, and Waldheim. Nor does he pull that crap on Castro, Gorbachev, or the new and old Chinese leaders he sucks up to. I'm hitting you low here, I know.

Read the stupid Living Buddhism. For once they have a great article on Buddhism and Christianity. They said their is no one path to happiness. Capiche!

Mike Y.

Mike, what Micha, and others who share his view, is missing is the real source of disunity, and the expertise with which the Gakkai manages to manipulate appearances. Let me say that I do not see this as particularly evil in intent, but in practice it's a pretty nasty piece of work.

Set up the premise that creating disunity is a bad thing. So far so good. Now teach what everyone needs to unite around. Now reinforce the unity schtick. Shake well.

Anyone not uniting properly, by which we mean following along without asking any hard questions? Hmmm, could be guilty of failure to unify.

Now let one of those folks actually question or object. Shhh! You might be breaking unity! Do it again and we'll shun you. Make too much noise and we'll demonize you. Get mad and we'll label you. And guess what we'll label you as?

A destroyer of the unity of believers, that's what!

Think about it folks. Did the sincere thinking individual with the questions and objections destroy unity, or did the groupthink leadership, by its actions and requirements, make unity possible only for certain types of people: those who are susceptible to such coercive nonsense?

Silly stuff, really, and very transparent, once you step back and look.

And I still think Micha is a Nichiren Shoshu plant (or Peter >8^).

Cheers!

Andy

Hey, is Micha that sheriff from The Riffleman?
Heresy; any opionons or doctrines at variance with the official or orthodox position.
John Proctor is a witch.

Leis

hello:

The SGI...especially Danny Nagashima...has made it clear trhat I am not wanted or welcome as a member...

Hey...I know when to quit!
David

Hi all,

FYI, recently I sent a letter to the World Tribune stating the paper has been a politicized cheerleading sheet for some time, especially since the removal of the Letter to the Editors section. I requested the return of that feature, with the publication of opinions that challenge the party line and offer constructive criticism of the organization.
I got an immediate response thanking me for my comments and promising discussion about the issue among the editorial staff.
I sit here wondering if the response to my letter was, indeed, sincere (I was awfully surprised it came so soon) or if I was just getting the cordial brush-off. Well, perhaps I shouldn't hold my breath for any fast changes in policy, but I'm glad I took the action to write and I plan to do more.
I thank most of you for your spirited, insightful and soul-sustaining comments on autonomous thinking. Have a wonderful weekend!

Gabrielle


Gabielle.
I got the same electronic reply to my email. AFAIK it came about 15-30 minutes after the note was sent. Our wonderful heart-to heart dialogical organization cannot send a personal reply. With their embrace of the internet they might be thinking they've made the leap into the 21st century. At the same time, however, an article in the WT a few months ago did mention not using the internet as an excuse for personal contact.

It might good if the WT had an open house some weekend where they can have roundtable discussions open to the public. Likely, it would be a waste of time but it would be a good show to the members that they might be open to serious suggestions.

Hi Mike,

Who knows if it will translate into progressive change, but I believe I did get a personal, as opposed to a canned, reply from the World Tribune in response to my letter. It wasn't the sort of automatic electronic reply you get moments after sending the epistle. It took them a day or two to respond.
Actually, I got two replies. The first was a detailed explanation of why they discontinued the Letter to the Editors section. Their answer was unsatisfactory to me and I wrote back stating why I thought their reasoning was faulty, and that their editorial policy was repressive. That's when I told them the paper had become a cheerleading sheet, and shortly afterward they wrote me again saying the issue was up for discussion.
But obviously, what matters is that they follow through on their words with a healthy change in policy. It's anybody's guess as to when that will happen.

Happy Saturday,

Gabrielle

Hello:

I have to do some backtracking here....with egg on my face...

Pardon me if I'm brainwashed, but I'm NOT resigning from the SGI...my post of last night was the result of a combination of anger and alcohol...I've done it before, and may again...

No, I'm not easily defeated....just get a bit crazy at times...and went for cocktails with a bad attitude...

I'm still a loyal SGI member...with issues!

David

David.
Hurrah!

Received my latest WT today and read about the reorganization into 5 areas nationwide. In some undefined way this will make the organization better. Lots of new faces. Hard to tell who has a mind of their own or will work for change. Notably absent was Kan Saragosa. Glad to see Micha was not there. Sorry for the additional salt.

Discussed this will my little Soka Underground cell over here and the consensus is that the goal is recruitment, first and foremost. We reject this and propose working with the members we have and, by creating incredible victory in their lives, SGI-USA will grow of it's own accord.

From all of us.

Hello all:

This is part of a letter I sent to a very kind leader...letting him
know I had no intention of resigning...and explaining my admittedly
erratic and conflicted behavior on this point...

Dear (name witheld)

I am sending this email to make sure you know that I have no
intention of resigning from the SGI...that email was sent after a
long night of drinking, combined with frustration...I honestly did
not even remember having sent it...

...I am embarrassed to have to explain it...the truth is the
truth...but I'm not an alcoholic...it was an unusual situation...I
broke the cardinal rule of posting on the net while loaded...

Of course, the frustration I expressed was real...but in the sober
light of morning, I am...and always hope to be...a supporter of the
SGI...albeit one with issues!

It all comes back to the same core issue...which is what I'm about...

The SGI's construction of needless roadblocks impede the ability of
members to practice and propagate the Daimoku joyfully and
wholeheartedly...and if a 31 year member like myself finds himself so
deeply conflicted about these things, how much more of a roadblock
are they to a new or prospective member who lacks three decades of
actual proof?

1. financial disclosure...a huge roadblock to those of us ethically
opposed to same...look at what a mess I am over it...

2.The "wall of silence"...SGI's policy of not discussing issues such
as financial disclosure in any publication...

3. The "enshrinement" of Daisaku Ikeda into our religious
liturgy...Whether or not it actually constitutes "excessive
adulation" of the president, it gives the appearance of
impropriety...and makes many members very uncomfortable, while
fueling accusations that we are a "cult of personality"...

4."Cultish" mannerisms and the president...e.g.,the act of locking
arms and ending meetings by singing an ode of joyful adulation of the
president as our "mentor"...(Forever Sensei")...as a person opposed
to such group adulation (which implies to members uncomfortable with
this ceremony that
their faith is somehow defective) I am forced to leave meetings early
when this type of thing happens...

These are a few examples...you know what I mean...

This is my simple quest...To convince the leadership that these
things ARE in fact needless roadblocks to the practice which cause
more alienation and estrangement than positive effects...

The fact that you...and most old time leaders..do not respond to
these roadblocks in this manner does not mean they do not exist...my
conflicted practice, as a 31 year veteran, is proof that they DO have
unintended negative effects...

I simply cannot understand why the organization would deliberately
put in place...and leave in place... unimportant and unneeded
roadblocks to the enjoyment of and confidence in the SGI movement...

This is why I continue to assail such things...even though there is
no evidence that the leadership even understands my concerns...

But most essential is that the leadership at least acknowledge my
input...and the input of others like myself...

By totally ignoring me and others like me, the SGI is effectively
saying "take a hike"...and although a part of me (as you saw in my
Friday post) wants to do just that...the part of me that is a
disciple of both Nichiren and Ikeda will not let me do that...

So, I will continue to take exception...and I can only suppose that
Danny and the other staff members will continue to ignore my
exceptions as being without value...which, I suppose, means that they
consider my membership either without value...or of negative value...

Which certainly does not encourage one like myself to stick around!

But I'm here...with or without your support...

Thanks
David Johnson

PS to LA Mikey...
Suggested positions for Micha: "Chief Executioner"..."Grand High Inquisitor"

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