It is not the intention of Nichiren Shoshu to arrogantly proclaim itself True Buddhism for ego's sake. It goes back simply to the conviction, taught by Nichiren Daishonin to his followers both the Priesthood and lay believers alike, that Shakyamuni Buddha's True Intentions were to help all humankind to attain enlightenment, or Buddhahood, in this lifetime we now exist in.
As a Nichiren Buddhist who has been a member of Nichiren Shoshu, SGI and, now, unaffiliated with any school, I sure wish we could drop the whole "True Buddhism" concept and attendant smacktalk. But if we did, would that somehow be a betrayal of Nichiren's teachings? Anyone?
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IMHO, anyway. We can proclaim Nichiren's teachings without exclusive-ism, and get much farther doing so.It seems like Mr. Smith hasn't studied outside of Nichiren Shoshu, from some of his later comments.
The 'True' in True Buddhism is not that other forms of Buddhism are false, but that this Buddhism has as its core the 'True' doctrine of ichinen sanzen which is non-existent in other forms of Buddhism that don't hold the Lotus Sutra as the highest teaching. Basically it only exists in Tendai and Nichiren Buddhism.With this in mind, all sects that hold as their basic doctrine ichinen sanzen, can all say they are practicing 'True Buddhism'. Nichiren Shoshu or any sect is not the sole proprietor of this doctrine.
Markp, in that case why doesn't everybody just refer to it as "Ichinen Sanzen Buddhism" rather than "True Buddhism."Also, people can awaken to their Buddhahood through meditation. This is what the Buddha taught. The Buddha never taught NMRK or ichinen sanzen. And Nichiren himself never taught that one must understand theoretical ichinen sanzen to attain buddhahood. He taught people to chant and have faith in the Gohonzon, which he regarded as actual ichinen sanzen.Presuming that only ichinen sanzen is the "true" path to awakening is chauvinistic. Using the word "true" with regard to your school obviously denigrates other schools.
Some remarks on this on my blog today at http://theendlessfurther.com
Ichinen Sanzen comes from the LS, so if you don't believe the Buddha taught the LS then that is your right. It is my right to believe it is a true teaching, and I experience the benefit of awakening to it every day. Cynicism without even studying ichinen sanzen is what I see from everyone else.
I read it, and it is well presented, but I find quite a few flaws.First, you say that emptiness and ichinen sanzen are basically the same, and while there are points of agreement, focusing solely on emptiness without the explanations of ichinen sanzen will get you no where. You must first understand that which is conceivable before you are able to understand that which is inconceivable. Chi-i breaks it down so that one can understand the basis of all phenomena first, and with this basis one is then able to see the inconceivable sphere. There is also the fact that from the basis of emptiness the false doctrine of the Void arose. Second, and I will quote you.
While partially true, I disagree. Nichiren understood. His followers don't. There is no priest teaching ichinen sanzen today, because they don't understand it. SGI certainly is not even slightly aware of what the teachings mean, and I was once told by a priest that it couldn't be understood, yet I understand it and can see the fringes of the inconceivable sphere because I have always been the best at everything I do. You cannot expect that from the masses.I have always said that the LS is inclusive of all other teachings, as Nichiren stated to 'rely on what is true and complete'. You also do not understand 'actual ichinen sanzen' or you would understand why Nichiren did what he did.If you want to reply to something on my blog, I'd prefer you do it there. This tread is about an article on another blog, and it so its probably off topic.
I don't like the term. It implies there is a false buddhism. When some one tells me something most likely I believe them but when they start swearing to God something is true I begin to wonder. If you call yourself "True Buddhism" I wonder if you don't have some trick up your sleeve."Our enlightenment is more profound than theirs.", "We awaken our real Buddha Nature while others don't properly understand Buddha Nature." People who say things like this are in my opinion deluded. If there really was a "True Buddhism" it would be concerned with the enlightenment of all beings not wiith creating a brand that would crush all "competition".
well said, clown.
Here is someone saying that they have always been the best at what they do and can therefore "see the fringes of the inconceivable sphere." As if all people of all creeds cannot see the fringes of the inconceivable sphere, in a garden, while star-gazing, having strong or subtle feelings of appreciation, receiving inspiration, in dreamy, half-asleep consciousness. Elitist doctrine suits you fine! What you are saying doesn't indicate understanding of any ultimate reality...it merely indicates a personality type that is very common in most spheres and certainly in the "masses." Surely, MarkP, you're joking! Either that, or you are truly scary.
Why don't you explain to me why there is no self, and then explain how Dependant Co-arising impacts your life. Go ahead, I'm waiting.Till then, I don't think I'm going to wait very long for someone who is in SGI to tell me anything.
When I argue something with DMR at least I know that he is well studied. I don't agree with everything he says, but I do agree with his conclusion that the Nichiren sects have relegated ichinen sanzen to dogma, and I know as a fact that there is no Nichiren sect that teaches it.And I hate to beat up on you, but how does it feel to have practiced for 35 years and not know shit about Buddhism? Have you ever read the Maka Shikan, or even the Lotus Sutra? Maybe you have, and maybe I'm wrong. I will be the first to apologize if so, but till then why should we give any weight to what you say?And yeah, I spelled inconceivable wrong.
You truly are a an arrogant idiot, I don't need anyone to tell me what an idiot you are because you are 100% idiot! What ever you studied, who ever you listened to, has done nothing for you. That you are an idiot is clear. Until you explain how an idiot like you gets dressed in the morning I'm assuming your mother helps you. After 35 years of studying how does it feel to realize you wasted all that time and know nothing?
The former dmr here. I don't know if you guys are joking around, maybe you know each quite well, or whatever. . . but this back and forth, tit for tat dialogue really comes off as juvenile.If you can't disagree without taking umbrage or calling someone an idiot, perhaps you shouldn't be posting to a public forum. I know that I don't want to read that kind of stuff, and all it does it reinforce those negative feelings I have about Nichirenism anyway. Perhaps, the grade school level of bickering is the reason there is so little activity on this site, despite the large numbers of visitors you get. A "unique visitor" is someone who has visited the site at least once during a reporting period. The question is how many of them come back, how many total visits you have.
I'd rather be the former, and you guys have been on my case for how long now? In a moment of weakness, my beloved dog Annie died yesterday, I committed the terrible offense of criticizing someone that has also been on my case, even though I have never said a word to him except in reply. I'll bet anyone here that he has never heard the term 'inconceivable sphere' till I said it, or maybe from DMR, yet he would criticize me because he doesn't understand what I'm talking about. I'm scary to him because I express awakening.Well, this is Buddhism, and isn't that the point? People don't believe it can happen because it hasn't happened to them. They are trapped by their own mind in thinking that it is impossible. To quote Hakuin, "how far is your eyelid from your eye?" Nichiren stated that the basis for his inner awakening was ichinen sanzen, so how hard is it to imagine that someone who has studied ichinen sanzen for over six years would get results?Anyway, I am agreed, can we stop the stupid bickering? I have been forced to defend myself too many times at this site by people who just like their version of how they think it should be better than mine. I don't care what others think of me, so think I'm arrogant. I already said I am, and Nichiren was too. Go ahead and think I'm a fundamentalist, cause the Buddha and Nichiren were too. Been called it by people who know a lot more about Buddhism than most of the people here, and it doesn't hurt me at all.
I don't think it's a matter of the fact that I prefer my own interpretation over someone elses, after all what would you expect. I think that it's a simple matter. When some one poses themselves as so learned to the point of understanding what no one else does and then uses this supposedly superior knowledge to brow beat people you should understand that they are completely and 100% full of shit. And I make absolutely no apologies to any one for saying so. Dead dog or not!
When I speak in this venue I am not speaking to you anyway. I feel you would have said the same thing to the Buddha.I'm not looking for fame or fortune. I'm not looking for people to adore me. When there is an awakening that person teaches his or her awakening. That is what Buddhism is about. That is how Buddhism moves into the future.
Look, I don't agree with Mark P. either, but your approach just doesn't make it. You seem to like the word idiot a lot. You used five times in as many sentences. Know what an idiot it is? "An utterly foolish or senseless person." That, sorry to say, is how you come across. "You truly are a an arrogant idiot, I don't need anyone to tell me what an idiot you are because you are 100% idiot!" Wow. Bet you spent a lot of time on that finely crafted statement. You write stuff like "I didn't know Nichiren was an anti-communitist." What is that supposed to mean? And you misspelled communist. You say it's not a matter of preferring your own interpretation, well, what is your interpretation? What do you have to say besides the fact that you think Mark is full of it? What you guys are doing is not communication, it's just snapping at each other. It's childish and it's boring.
I didn't mispell communist I was making a bad pun with a made up word comunity-ist. I could use the word idiot 500 times, he is an idiot. An arrogant idiot who pretends to know what he doesn't know and then puts other people down. A complete idiot. Idiot. Idiot. Idiot. diot. IDIOT!
What difference does it make if I don't spell correctly or have a small vocabulary? Mark P. claims to undestand what no one else has ever understood, and compares himself to the buddha in that he is obliged to preach his new dharma. You got my point which was that he is full of it. Of course according to him I only say that because I'm too stupid to understand him. Feel free to agree with him. Maybe go back and read his explanations of things and you decide if he's the new buddha or just another idiot in love with his own understanding. To me it's quite clear. But feel free to think I'm the idiot who doesn't understand, it does me no harm.
You are too immature to be reasonable or just unwilling, in either case you are not worth bothering with.
OOOOH a mortal wound!
Sadly, Mark P may have a studied knowledge -- but it's based on deep anger.
Sadly, Mark P may have a studied knowledge -- but it's based on deep anger.
I'm not angry! In fact, I am quite happy. I do get a bit perturbed every once in a while, but that doesn't happen often. Mostly I am very detached.Everything I have preached for the most part can be backed up by the sutras and the Maka Shikan. There are some parts that I have now decided are wrong and I will get them changed eventually. Clown just doesn't like a word I say, and thats fine by me. Here is a quote that is not my words, but everything I have been saying for months.
The Observer includes the people of Haiti, women who get raped, and yes, even Clowns.Mark, your quite wrong that I never agree with a word you say. I simply don't agree with your proposition that you have realized something never before realized and that it entitles you to be smug and condescending.Here's another quote, "Never argue with an idiot, they'll drag you down to their level and win on experience."So, have it your way. You're the Buddha. I'm deluded. I don't need to argue. Your position is absurd.
"I simply don't agree with your proposition that you have realized something never before realized"Really? Never before realized eh? Many have realized what I have, especially since it is the words of those people that enabled me to realize what I have so far. You have deluded yourself into thinking that awakening is unattainable, and I would like to know why? What causes and conditions shaped your life into a cynical mess? I'm here to tell you that you can understand Buddhism, and you can attain what you thought was unattainable. You can do it with this practice but you have to seek it, and that is the problem. People don't seek it! I never knew shit about Buddhism until I decided that I was going to understand the Ten Factors no matter that there was no one there to teach me.
I never said awakening was unattainable, I never said you didn't have some realization. You were the one who said that YOU understood something no one else did. Don't blame me. You did that all on your own. You say people don't seek, some do and some don't. Regardless of how deep an understanding you have of ichinen sanzen your attitude towards other people, their practice, and their understanding demonstrates a lack of understanding. I don't really feel I need your asssistance, but you seem to want people to listen to you. If you think being smug and self righteous is going to facilitate things for you, carry on.
You see me as smug and self righteous, but that is within you, not me. You just don't like being told anything. You cling to your own views even though they cannot possibly lead to awakening. This not unusual at all. People think they have everything they need to get through life, except most are unhappy because they don't have a correct view of life. This planet we live on people are the most medicated than any other generation. Why are they medicated? Because they don't understand how life works. Even Buddhists are medicated. Maybe you don't need help, but I would appreciate it if you would keep your opinions on Buddhism to yourself, because your opinions won't help anyone.
I don't know what views you think I'm clinging to that you think won't lead to liberationI certainly do find you you smug, condecending, and very impressed with your realizations. If I'm wrong I'd be happy to apologize. But so far all I see is confirmation.
I thought you were going to tell me what the delusions are that are keeping me from enlightenment, and all you did was express dismay that I don't find you an acceptable teacher. That you think it's because you describe reality as it is is laughable nonsense to me, just more condescension from your extremely enlightened self.
clown hidden, all seekers....there is a false prophet in our midst. No one enlightened would treat you that way. stay clear of the man and he will come around! He's just working out some old scar tissue. the answers come from chanting...keep it pure!
You guys really need to watch what you say.I am no prophet, have never said I was anywhere near being a Buddha, and have not said anything that isn't consistent with the sutras. In fact, what I have said has always been consistent with cause and effect and purity of the mind.I only acknowledged my basic awakening because people on E-Sangha were arguing that no Nichiren Buddhist has ever attained awakening, so I challenged them to look at my life.Now, I really don't care what either of you do, but what you are doing is trying to make fun of someone you do not know. That shows absolutely no awakening.I will post this quote one more time and leave this thread alone for good.
When an awakened person teaches his or her awakening it awakens others. It doesn't generate aversion.
In the last six years a whole lot of Buddhists have started to study ichinen sanzen because of me. Robin Beck has helped along the way to the point we now have Shoshinkai members questioning their priests about it. So thanks to my efforts starting on ARBN and continuing at E-Sangha, and then here, there are a lot of Nichiren Buddhists that have started to study Kanjin.I was the first!And, BTW, ever hear of Devedatta?
This is my last word, hopefully, in this thread.I started the interest in Kanjin (Observation of the Mind) over six years ago on ARBN. Those that don't know what ARBN is, don't bother.The premise today, based on my own growth, is that there are two sections to the Lotus Sutra, the Essential and the Theoretical. Ask most priests and they will tell you that the Essential is superior to the Theoretical section, and I agree. The reason there are so many independent practitioners of Nichiren Buddhism today is that because they practice the Essential, that is the actual practice, they then awaken to the Theoretical, and so become Buddhist.This is the inverse of Physics, in that in Physics there is first posited a theory and then they do the math to prove the theory. In Buddhism you do the math(practice)first, which then leads to the theory.The priesthood makes the mistake of thinking that the practice of Kanjin means that one has to practice what Chi-i laid out as his practice. This was a hodgepodge of everything from Zen to Pure Land, and they are against anyone practicing anything other than the Essential practice. What they fail to see is that Chi-i couldn't reveal what Nichiren revealed because of the time. That is why he stopped teaching. He could not reveal the Essential practice. If he could have, he would have revealed the practice too, but he stopped. Make of this what you want, but there is the reality as-it-is that prevails.My position is that by using the Essential teaching(practice)and studying the Theoretical teaching, one can reveal enlightenment. And how could it be any other way? How could anyone think that they could attain something they don't even understand?For those that do not have the capacity, they should continue to practice the essential until such time as they begin to understand. This may take several lifetimes, but they are progressively better lifetimes. For those that do have the capacity in this life, combine the theory with the practice and awaken, but know it is a gradual awakening, as David has pointed out. Whatever you do, until the awakening leads to changes in your life, you have not awakened. Just as the theory leads to the math. If the math doesn't compute, there has been no awakening. In other words, your environment will reflect awakening. If it doesn't, you have not awakened.Don't know what that means, don't worry about it.
Once upon a time there was a Greek guy by the name of Sextus Empiricus who theorized that there were essentially three kinds of philosophizing: the dogmatic, the academic and the sceptical.The dogmatist claims to be in possession of The Truth, the academic says that the truth can never really be known, while the sceptic just keeps on seeking.
Mark, you keep telling us your environment reflects your awakening, and to look at your life. Yet you have provided no details about your life we can examine. Your name is far too common for google to be useful. And with nearly every post you insult someone, or exhibit signs of paranoia. I wouldn't call that purity of mind.
I do not insult with every post. If people are insulted it lies within their own life. Look at the record of posts and you will find that almost every time I am put on the defensive because someone accuses me of this or that, or they misunderstand my statements. In fact, if you look at my posts you will find that most have causality as their basis. How is it that causality is insulting to Buddhists?As for my environment reflecting the purity of the mind, I've already said too much about it. It is there if you look for it, but I won't go into it again and I won't point you in the direction of it. All my speaking of it does is to provide something for cynics to make fun of. Been there, done that, not happening anymore. You want to see my life you can come visit me in Texas.
I see it in a lot of so-called Buddhists who have practiced for many years. Why is that? What are they so afraid of? One would think that someone who was awake could be honest and open and able to withstand any attack.As for your environment reflecting the purity of the mind, isn't BuddhaJones part of your environment? For that matter isn't the Gulf of Mexico part of your environment?Where in Texas?
" One would think that someone who was awake could be honest and open and able to withstand any attack."One would think, but that isn't how it works in a world full of skeptics. "As for your environment reflecting the purity of the mind, isn't BuddhaJones part of your environment? For that matter isn't the Gulf of Mexico part of your environment?"The Gulf is part of the greater environment and has no direct effect on me. I am saddened to see the loss of life and the destruction of the environment as much as anyone, but I'm just as powerless as anyone else to change what has already occurred. I cannot change anyone else's karma. Only my own.Buddhajones is a great Buddhist blogspot and I don't care if I get myself into trouble here. I have my own forum, but the responsibility of running the forum outweighs my using it as a personal platform. I've got a very strong core of posters there that were regulars at E-Sangha and I don't want the forum becoming just about me.
Mark, it's your style that puts people off. But we are all a little rough around the edges. I met someone once who told me that he had experience that was so beyond the common experience of the hordes, so profound, that he was certain that I could not have had any experience on par with it. Whether true or not, it's just annoying. the Buddha and real bodhisattvas avoid that kind of language. It's a matter of style. More power to you -- many blessings to Texas and the Gulf.
and by the way, Mark, if you choose to emulate the style and language of Nichiren, you're going to be on the constant defensive. It's not the "cynicism" of the modern world, it is it's savvy that will drive sensitive people to resist a person with your, how should we say, more traditional nature.... Lighten up on ClownHidden....he's SGI, and the SGI is clearly suffering duality now. It's hard to overcome that massive influence and think independently.
PM,Mark states the obvious and is then perturbed when people don't hail him as teh author of a new revelation. That has nothing to do with SGI but your slight is noted.
Wow, I can't believe how long this thread of attacks and petty sniping is, and I didn't even contribute to the back-and-forth! I guess you don't need me anymore. sniffle.
I really didn't mean to slight you. please read my post again. I referred to you as sensitive, which means intelligent and savvy. I thought you were in the SGI....but I didn't mean to slight them either. But anyone can see they are suffering from duality. no hard feelings. blessings.