Free Nichiren Buddhism
After vandalizing this website, Mark Porter (markp) has removed himself from participation on BuddhaJones. Mark is the founder of ION, a new Nichiren Buddhist organization.
The comments below pertain to a request he posted here seeking members for his board of directors. The moderators of BuddhaJones wish him well.
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22 comments
I see the need to get past sectarian barriers. Maybe you're covered this elsewhere, but is your group planning to train people to minister to Nichiren practitioners? Seems to me, this is what we need most in the Nichiren community -- people who are knowledgeable about Buddhism and who care about nurturing small groups. Independent Nichiren practitioners are generally "do it yourselfers," but longterm we need people with real chaplaincy skills.
We actually have proposed this in our ByLaws, but all that stuff is way down the road. They would of course be Lay Ministers, but we see them as being able to perform weddings and such. They would also be the most knowledgeable members in their community with a strong training program developed by us.
I think we talked about something along those lines. Ministers might be nice, but seeing as there's just three of us in this thing right now, just enough to call ourselves a "Sangha" according to some rules, it might be a little silly to have ministers or anything like that now.I've thought about getting ordination from the Universal Life Church so I could do weddings for friends...shrug.
I was wondering how long it would take for markp to make an unprovoked, ridiculously hostile statement in defense of his new organization.Just Google "gongyo book." Anyone and everyone has a version of it. Here's one that claims to be independent and nonprofit:http://www.lulu.com/product/pa...Perhaps ION intends to mimic SGI's grandiose, triumphalist braggadocio as well. Plus ca change, plus ca meme chose.
Yeah, I have that one. It has A and C only and no Kanji characters to denote the beat of Gongyo.There are also a couple more out there as well, and everyone of them is A and C only and no Kanji.Know of one that is complete?
Think back. Since you left SGI or whomever you were with, when was your last Shakubuku?What sect do you recommend now? The only one I could actually recommend would be Nichiren Shu, but damn, I'm Nikko school and I don't like their funny hats, not to mention their syncretic practice. Other than that, they have their shit together more than any other sect. There's like 19 American priests now with Nichiren Shu, and they have done a good job. Apparently not good enough to attract all the Independents though.So when is the last time you got someone else to practice? That is what ION is about. It is about there being a Nichiren Buddhist Organization out there that you can actually, and without hesitation recommend to others. And also an organization that will invest in the community, because if that investment doesn't come the org will dry up and go away.You guys can bitch about it and say what you want, but I will just re-iterate 'When was the last time you did Shakubuku?'.
Markp, this whole way of thinking just makes me tired. Can't we move past this attitude of one-upmanship and competitive Buddhism? There are many people with whom I share my practice, but I would not call any of them "my shakubuku."The mentality of going out and converting people to Buddhism is destined for failure in this country. Many people are attracted to Buddhism and seek it out quite naturally. Maybe this way of developing a sangha isn't fast enough for you, isn't enough of an "accomplishment," but it's the most sustainable and most respectful approach to sharing dharma in our pluralistic society.I think it's sad that you're hellbent on re-creating the SGI, or that you admire the so-called accomplishments of SGI in America. Maybe you feel that your glory days are behind you, and somehow wrapped up in an arena of thousands of people chanting slogans together. To my mind, that whole phase was a learning experience, but something not to be repeated -- a lot like adolescence.It's time for grown-up Nichiren Buddhism now, where mob mentality and aggression have no place.
You totally distorted and misrepresented what Brooke wrote. It's creepy how you bully people who question your "vision" of an organization.
It bothers me that everything I post on this site you guys seem to have a problem with it. You say I'm bullying others who don't see my vision and that just isn't true. I keep having to DEFEND my position, and that isn't bullying, and you guys ARE cynical.You guys need to look at the conditions that brought you to the place that you are right now, because it is within you that lies the animosity, not me. Instead of asking questions about ION and how we intend to run the org, you guys just automatically assume the worst. Well, it isn't going to be like SGI, and just because we want community centers doesn't mean we're going to be like them either. You forget that this isn't just me. We have four Board members right now, one is Kempon Hokke, and these other Board members aren't going to let me become a megalomaniac. :)We vote on things and the majority wins, and we have made provisions for up to 20 board members including members from other sects as representatives of their sect. Now how is that like SGI?
Markp, I wonder if you're being intentionally clueless in an attempt to troll on this board or what. On Monday, you wrote:
You're the one who compared your new organization favorably with SGI. Yet you wonder why people say that you're trying to re-create the SGI. You know why people think that? Because that's what you said.It's just astonishing that you would go off on a screed about how Brooke has no humanity...your exact words:I mean, WHAT? Brooke is among the most caring, nurturing practitioners of Nichiren Buddhism I have ever met. But then, this isn't about real people for you, is it? It's about shadowboxing your own delusions.You obviously cannot handle criticism. You are obviously not open to other points of view. You are incapable of seeing that others have valid, honestly held differences of opinion. So you attack people who disagree with you as "cynical." What a laugh.If you're the exemplar of the new breed of Nichiren Buddhist that ION will raise, good luck to you, friend. You're going to need it.markp, you insult mroaks. Then you turn around and beg him to join your club. Do you honestly not see how unbalanced you are with regard to your organization? You are not doing yourself or your cause any favors.
mroaks is not welcome. When I speak on the internet I may not be speaking to you when I say 'you'.
I don't seem to be able to get through to some folks what ION is about. They clearly haven't even checked out the Bylaws or the mission statement.We already have a work around to our problem so this debate about nothing is detrimental.I'm out!
I missed all the excitement surrounding markp's departure. I would like to remind everyone here that an online message board is not a sangha. We may all practice Buddhism, but being online together does not make us a community of believers.Many people make the mistake of thinking that online conversation is a substitute for talking and interacting with people in the real world. I know several people who post here, in the sense that I have met and spoken with them face to face. There is no substitute for this kind of interaction. It is the basis of all relationships.Time and again in Nichiren Buddhism, we have all seen people get very involved in online discussion, and take it all very personally and seriously, as if internet interaction was their sangha. They look to online groups for the kind of support that one can only get from real human interaction. Not that exchanging messages isn't real -- it's very real of course. But unless one knows the people with whom one is communicating, one cannot rely on internet messages for any kind of real support or insight. Online communication can supplement the work of a sangha, but it cannot replace it.BuddhaJones is not a support group. It is not a sangha. It is not a substitute for friendship. It is a website where people share news and opinions.I would like to remind everyone: If you find that you're spending a lot of time online conversing with strangers, and this makes you feel upset or not supported enough, turn off your computer, for heaven's sake. Go for a walk. Meet a friend for a cup of coffee. If you feel deeply upset, please talk (in person) to a trained professional who can help you work out your feelings.
I know when I went to Suriname and took a long break (and had zero online access) I felt better when I came back. You're right, Auntie.I also want to say that Buddhism is not a substitute for medical or psychiatric care, and it's not a substitute for professional counseling. Many Nichiren practitioners (and organizations) are in denial about mental illness. A lot of times they claim that the person just has to "change their karma." They don't need a therapist because the Gohonzon is their therapist. They don't need anger management counseling because they just have to "master their mind" through memorizing Buddhist concepts. This is a really dangerous attitude.I've seen a lot of unaddressed cases of emotional or psychological disturbance in people who are attracted to Nichiren Buddhism. I've seen people use Buddhism as an excuse or rationalization for not getting the help they need.There are a lot of "leaders" out there who will quote Nichiren and say, "NamuMRK is the roar of a lion. What sickness can be an obstacle?" They use this line as justification for avoiding professional care.Maybe this goes back to the point Nine Lives made at the beginning of this thread: What we most need in Nichiren Buddhism are trained chaplains, people who can minister to others and who know that Buddhist practice isn't a magic cure-all.
I'm as eager as anyone to let this kerfuffle die. Still, I think you should say what markp did rather than just call it vandalism. He went into the archives and deleted all items he had posted in the past in an attempt to remove other people's comments from the site. All users on the site are free to edit their own diaries as they wish, but they aren't free to delete the comments of others. Moderators here prefer to err on the side of letting all comments stand. So trying to erase other people's comments because you disagree with them is uncool. Even so, it's not prohibited by the rules. (Are there even any rules for this site?)Also, Nine told me that markp posted expletives to the main column headline. Also uncool, but not necessarily prohibited.If I recall, there was one other user who posted false information to the main column and was quickly banned.Having permission to post to the main column or having your diary promoted to the main column is an indication that a site moderator trusts and values your contributions to this site. Altering your posts after they've been promoted or knowingly publishing false info is an abuse of the moderator's trust. I think people who do it should be banned from the site for good.
DD, I think you're learning that if people can find a way to mess with the blog software, they will try to mess with it.It's not possible for a non-moderator to delete a comment, BTW. That's what he tried to do, but couldn't.I know you want to have a moderator-free site where everyone can be trusted to participate on their honor. I don't want to rehash arguments we've had about this. I just want to say that there are too many vandals in general who call themselves Nichiren Buddhists. They will piss in the soup. That's all you can count on them for.These people will never appreciate a site like this. See my note here.
1. No it wasn't against the rules because there aren't any rules.2. No one has been banned. He left by his own choice.3. The amount of vandalism a user can do is limited. I called it vandalism because it was easier than explaining.4. The site relies on trust of participants. If someone wants to hack it or sign up for fake accounts to post spam, there are measures we can take, but every website is vulnerable to these things. That's how the Internet works.5. I would like to drop it now because there's nothing more to say.