*An important note added on 2/14/04 - I incorrectly state in the following blog that the sokagakkaiinternational@yahoogroups.com list, which I openly criticize, does not have published guidlines regarding moderation critieria - apparently it in fact DOES have said guidelines. Also I must mention that this list is not an official SGI sponsored list. Not sure why that's important to have to say, but it's been said. Why am I adding this to an already written blog? Because it was suggested that my evil anti-censorship rant should be removed (censored) from even THIS forum. Censorship is not something that just happens, it is in fact a function of human life, a nasty tumor that grows and regrows after ever surgical removal. Of course if anyone has anything to say about me, they are more than welcome to say it to me. antizen@ultimanet.com *
The first and original Nichiren Buddhist discussion list (I dont even know what to call them these days) was started back in the early 90s by Bill Norton, then Palo Alto California SGI vice territory chief and Sun Microsystems minion. He set up zadankai originally as a daily guidance list going out to other Sun Micro SGI members. He didnt intend for the original alias to be used for discussion so after a while he built a separate list which he named zadankai, with the original list continuing on as daily guidance. The first zadankai was zadankai@nirvana.sun.com . A few short years after its inception zadankai was handed over to yet another minion where it was maintained faithfully throughout the 90s. It was eventually transferred to egroups.com which then became yahoogroups.com.
Zadankai has had its ups and down. There have been stormy periods which have weathered disgruntled members who have used and abused zadankai to vent their own negativity. Around 1998/99 zadankai was infiltrated by non-SGI spies who began cross-posting SGI members posts to use as fodder for the SGI/temple wars. Many other lists developed, some being the direct efforts of those who found fault with zadankai, yet their own list efforts were mostly short-lived and lay unused today like beached dead rotting whales on a polluted coastal shore with their most recent posts dating back years.
Theres a reason for this. Its the same reason zadankai survives on, rotating participants, sometimes seeing members filtering back after fighting it out on other lists. The reason is moderation. All other lists are moderated. Zadankai has never been moderated. It is an open list which supports open dialog.
Moderation is merely a comfortable word for censorship, nothing more.
Many discussion lists on the web are moderated for good reason. Nancy Thomsen, long-time SGI leader and business owner in Salinas subscribes to a print shop owners list. The purpose of this list is very specific. If someone posts something completely off-topic the moderator will usually send them a reminder asking them to get back on topic. Even this list doesnt censor however.
How strange was it to find that the Nichiren Buddhist list, SokaGakkaiInternation@yahoogroups.com is not only moderated, but posts deemed inappropriate are just removed without warning or notice? I had this happen recently, to my shock and surprise. This list, populated by members of SGI and other Nichiren groups, a religious philosophy practically built on the principle of dialog , is moderated by a handful of individuals who, following no published guidelines on what is appropriate or not, routinely removes posts silently, without notice to the author.
When did this become an all right thing to do? When did censorship become an acceptable behavior in the Soka Gakkai? I wonder that the very existence of the moderated option offered upon setting up these groups somehow deluded the creator of SokaGakkaiInternational into thinking it was an acceptable behavior to censor individual posts in accordance to his personal judgment.
My sense is that as in many things in religion we allow ourselves to don the uniform of some alternate reality, casting aside principles that we previously would not have questioned, in ourselves or others. Once adorned with the robes of religion we naturally become or own worst enemies, free from common sense and reason. We allow our faith to recreate us in an image that doesnt really exist and is instead our own twisted and assumed creation.
Zadankai continues on to this day. Neither moderated nor censored yet still restricted to SGI members only by vote from its current members. Zadankais membership has swelled in past years to the staggering membership of 120 plus members, while at other times dipping below 90. SokaGakkaiInternational on the other hand has literally hundreds of members. Many members of zadankai are also subscribed to SokaGakkaiInternational and have less energy on the subject. Thats ok with me, everyone has their cross to bear.
In the end however censorship is censorship. While its not so big a thing to have an occasional combative post quietly erased offline (yes, I can be somewhat combative) I do believe it is so big a thing that there are these handful of censors who have allowed themselves to think that moderation is something different than censoring, and that these censors may also hold leadership positions in SGI. Remember, doing something in the name of the greater good of the community is a concept that knows no limit, including genocide and holocaust. Exaggerated? History would disagree. Morals and ethics evolve within a specific society of people - principles never change.
Think dammitt. The rules dont change just because we choose to go Buddhist trick-or-treating in our new Buddha-suits. Lifes basic rules, as well as common sense and reason remain intact, regardless of what some may think.
At least so it is on zadankai.
Rev. Greg Dilley, shidoshi
Comments
Greg, your attacking the yahoo group sokagakkaiinternational for moderation is unfair. It has open membership, that means anyone can join. Zadankai is limited to SGI members and is so secret it is not even listed on Yahoo groups. How does one join; do you have to be invited? Isn't this a form of censorship as well?
You don't have to put up with spammers and trolls and people who routinely use insulting and profane language. Personally I don't believe in moderation either, but no one is forcing me to participate in a moderated group.
When you make zadankai open to all, then you can compare it to other groups. One of life's basic rules is that secret societies are hardly in a position to criticize other groups.
John, thanks for your comments. Perhaps I was compelled to mention that zadankai IS in fact not open to all as a way to say that zadankai isn't the perfect list either.
So you're right and I agree with you. Zadankai isn't perfect, but it still isn't moderated. The only "open to all, and unmoderated" list would be then, alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren.
I suppose what compelled me to write about censorship and the sgi group was my shock that posts were censored offline, with no notice to either the group of the author. This struck me as being of a child-like naive sort of deception, as though those who were "doing it" had never even thought it through.
Anyhow, I invite you to re-read my blog. The history of zadankai, never before shared to an open audience, says alot of how the decisions were made to keep it SGI member-only.
If you have any further complaints, I suggest you take it up with the zadankai list-owner.
Rev. Greg, Shidoshi
Hi Greg.
Remember me? I'm the Nichiren Buddhist who had debates with you about regarding gun control when we were on the ichinet. I must say, it was alot of fun, man.
I'm wondering, how would I find the zadankai group? I'd like to join and see if I could contribute to the discussion. I am an SGI member, so I don't think I'll have any problem getting on. However, I do have a tendency to blunt but honest.
Good to see that you're still around.
Eddie
ICHINET! I forgot the name Ichinet. Damn, how could I have forgotten that? Ichinet was what we called zadankai. Very cool. Yeah, I'll consult with the list-owner about putting you on.
Eddie - your e-mail address is not correct. Please e-mail me offline.
Rev. Greg
That's it! I'm deleting this blog.
Ha. Kidding.
Greg, it's one thing to have a private e-mail list for subscribers only. You don't have to moderate it because it's private and people come and go as they please, and everyone knows that the flames are hot. It's a whole other thing to run a public list or web site. The list owner or site editor is usually held responsible for all the content, which is as it should be. Since I'm responsible for what is on my web site, I reserve the right to delete things or not post things at my discretion. What you may call censorship others see as, simply, the job of an editor.
I like to give people a chance to say what they have to say whether I agree or not. But sometimes, for whatever reason, I take stuff down or just don't put it on the site in the first place. (Lately, though, I have been really busy with off-line projects and have a backlog of site items that need attention. I'm hoping that the blogs will fill this gap for a while. I hope no one feels "censored" because of this.)
Anyway, I think Will should run his list how he sees fit. I'm sure he takes heat for some things that are posted there, yet doesn't delete those posts. And I think you should continue to use your blog as a forum for your "provocative" views. I'm a fan. I'll try to upload the photo you want to add over the weekend.
Lisa J.
And to you Lisa I have only this to say;
"The network IS the Buddha"
You so rock. Keep up the good work.
Rev. Greg Dilley, Shidoshi
Sorry, I thought you were saying zadankai was perfect. My bad. I have also been moderated without notice on sokagakkaiinternational. It's annoying. I don't understand the mindset that makes someone think they have the right to tell others what they can or cannot say. I and a few others created Buddhist Dialogue Group on Yahoo with the idea it would be totally unmoderated. But I turned the ownership over to someone else and it quickly became moderated. Oh well.
How would I get on the zadankai list?
Hey, Greg, it's simple: the world doesn't operate by your rules. Get over yourself.
You run your private Zadankai club the way you want, and that's just fine. Will, Jim and Brian run the SGI site the way they want and that's just fine, too. Stay or go; join or don't.
But stop whining, and stop with the bogus "censorship" complaints. The SGI site, like my home, or yours, or your Zadankai site, is privately owned and operated. They aren't public places or public entities, subject to constitutional rules. The owners of all of the above get to set the rules, and people can follow those rules and come and go, as they choose. Nobody is being deprived of any rights. What crap! You, of all people, are usually better than this.
Do you disagree with the sensei down the street, and how he teaches martial arts and/or treats his students? Don't go there. Don't like the restaurant around the corner? Stay away.
Don't approve of the tremendous service that Will and Jim and Brian provide for a lot of people, at their own expense in time? Take a hike.
But don't bag on them for not running things your way.
And by the way, until you evict me, Zadankai is NOT only SGI members, 'cause I'm no longer a part of that club, so you have misrepresented your group, here.
Cheers!
Andy Hanlen
Hi Greg:
Actually I'm conflicted on the moderation issue...but you wouldn't believe how much Will's list has evolved in the last two years or so...
When I first joined, almost every rant I posted got deleted...
But the "reform" boards were an alternative and, quite honestly, my posts were flame ridden...
But the reform boards died a natural death...or near-death...Will's board took up a lot of that dialogue...and everyone's capacity to withstand criticism without freaking out seems to have expanded greatly...The conversations there are generally less angry and more intelligent than they were...
I'm convinced this is because dialogue changes people...after all, the sole purpose of dialogue is to better understand the position of the other person...
A few years ago dissent within the SGI was virtually unthinkable...Now it is routine...in some places...I recently heard a report about a meeting that was comprised of boring canned and taped presentations..the audience simply shut it down and demanded simple, honest dialogue...the meeting was transformed into a great success...
Perhaps you were overly hurt by the practice of making deletions without notice...I, too, wish they could find a better way to do that...
The GLBT site, for example, always notifies me when my posts are deleted...and if you think Will's board is censored, you should see this one....almost anything that seems critical of the organization gwts zapped...
On the other extreme is ARBN..a totally unmoderated cesspool inhabited by childlike trolls who delight in toilet talk and spam...utterly horrible and uselesss...
If there are ways to bridge these gaps in a new board..then try it!
Thanks
David
Bottom line....your input counts...come on back and help reshape the board...
Great post David - good perspective check!
RG,S
Greg, there are few people more adverse to censorship than me..but I think you're getting a bit melodramatic here...
Will's board IS his, after all...and I've seen what happens to totally unmoderated boards...they devolve into sewers...
So, he's chosen something between the sterile cheerleader pablum of SGI pubs and the fecal fest of ARBN...with a clear leaning towards tolerance and latitude....and that's a cyber-sangha that has some value for folks like me...
By the way, this site (buddhajones.com) seems to have lost some of it's "spark" lately...
I'd like to see it rekindle the flame of righteous reform (with a touch of self depricating humor)
If this is "Soka Underground", let's have a little more soka and a bit less whining...
I want to continue earnest discussion of subjects like:
Member empowerment and inclusion...
Creating an American organization that works...
Affirmative action for our leadership:
For four and a half decades, SGI-USA 's general directors have all been Japanese born males...I can think of several fantastic American women who'd be a great asset to our movement as General Director...
Financial disclosure:
Let's face it: An SGI that won't open it's books will never enjoy wide support from Americans: The only thing preventing us from doing the right thing is a the stranglehold exerted by outmoded japanese sensibitlities..
It's time to repay our debt of gratitude to the pioneers by telling them the simple truth: Those who impede financial disclosure are, in fact, impeding Kosen Rufu: Please get with the program or get out of the way...
I figure since you don't censor, Greg, I'll just come here regularly to vent and rant on any particular subject...ok by you?
You can rant all you want, but I'll have to put you on a higher-priced subscription service.
I don't know if there is a point you're trying to make. Read my latest blog for more on my feelings about censorship. We all have the right to control our own "space", how would you feel if I came over to YOUR space and tried to censor you for something you said here?
As far as my expectations of SGI. I agree with all you're saying in principle, I just have other fish to fry at the moment. Let me get past all this and I'll work at getting more "sparky". Until then you're welcome here.
Rev. Greg, Shidoshi